Japan curbs expansion in the late 30's.

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Futurist
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Re: Japan curbs expansion in the late 30's.

Post by Futurist » 19 Feb 2021 03:24

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
19 Feb 2021 02:10
OpanaPointer wrote:
18 Feb 2021 19:39
So, would China have challenged Japan for Korea when the Communists took over?
I am guessing you assume the Communists take over China? This is not a given, The Sino Japanese war created some of the critical conditions for Communist victory. Without that war, then ???

But. if the Communists take over China then I'd think yes.
Would a non-Communist China have NOT challenged Japan for Korea?

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Re: Japan curbs expansion in the late 30's.

Post by Futurist » 19 Feb 2021 03:25

OpanaPointer wrote:
18 Feb 2021 19:39
So, would China have challenged Japan for Korea when the Communists took over?
In order for China itself to dominate Korea, similar to the situation in Qing Dynasty times?

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Re: Japan curbs expansion in the late 30's.

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 19 Feb 2021 03:30

'Many' is the variable here. The Ottomans had a formal policy of leaving the Arabic culture alone, and allowed most other minorities enclaves. I can't recall the formal title for those, but specific cities, districts, or provinces were cultural pockets of Greeks, Armenians, Christians, ect... There was no overall policy of forcing anyone to learn Turkish or become Muslim, just incentives.

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Re: Japan curbs expansion in the late 30's.

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 19 Feb 2021 03:35

Futurist wrote:
19 Feb 2021 03:24
Carl Schwamberger wrote:
19 Feb 2021 02:10
OpanaPointer wrote:
18 Feb 2021 19:39
So, would China have challenged Japan for Korea when the Communists took over?
I am guessing you assume the Communists take over China? This is not a given, The Sino Japanese war created some of the critical conditions for Communist victory. Without that war, then ???

But. if the Communists take over China then I'd think yes.
Would a non-Communist China have NOT challenged Japan for Korea?
The evidence suggests strongly China, of whatever government would have. Japans control of Formosa, Korea, and Manchuria were seen by the Chinese in general as the latest in the series of humiliating and hated 'Unequal Treaties'. Abrogating those and forcing the despised barbarians to return control of the treaty cities, & distant provinces was a national pride thing.

Futurist
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Re: Japan curbs expansion in the late 30's.

Post by Futurist » 19 Feb 2021 04:49

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
19 Feb 2021 03:35
Futurist wrote:
19 Feb 2021 03:24
Carl Schwamberger wrote:
19 Feb 2021 02:10
OpanaPointer wrote:
18 Feb 2021 19:39
So, would China have challenged Japan for Korea when the Communists took over?
I am guessing you assume the Communists take over China? This is not a given, The Sino Japanese war created some of the critical conditions for Communist victory. Without that war, then ???

But. if the Communists take over China then I'd think yes.
Would a non-Communist China have NOT challenged Japan for Korea?
The evidence suggests strongly China, of whatever government would have. Japans control of Formosa, Korea, and Manchuria were seen by the Chinese in general as the latest in the series of humiliating and hated 'Unequal Treaties'. Abrogating those and forcing the despised barbarians to return control of the treaty cities, & distant provinces was a national pride thing.
Minor nitpick, but AFAIK, Korea was never a Chinese province--merely a Chinese vassal state.

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T. A. Gardner
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Re: Japan curbs expansion in the late 30's.

Post by T. A. Gardner » 19 Feb 2021 04:58

Futurist wrote:
19 Feb 2021 03:24
Carl Schwamberger wrote:
19 Feb 2021 02:07
Futurist wrote:
18 Feb 2021 00:46
Was Japan actually going to give full Japanese citizenship and legal equality to the people in Korea and Manchuria? Because that could also be a huge factor in determining whether assimilation succeeds or fails.
Immigration of Japanese to the colonies was encouraged. Japanese immigrants had privileges about the native population. Those with non Japanese ancestors, but who now lived as if Japanese would have advantages even if not actual Japanese citizens. You can seen similar phenomena in other empires. As Professor McDaniels put it; "To live in the Ottoman manner, gave you many of the advantages of being a Ottoman."
The Ottoman Empire at least had the benefit of having a unifying religious faith for many of its subjects (specifically Sunni Islam).
Most Koreans and Chinese were Buddhist or a similar religion so that wouldn't be too much of a problem. Many Japanese were Buddhist and some Christian so I don't think religion would be as big an issue here. Religious freedom was more common than with Islam.

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Re: Japan curbs expansion in the late 30's.

Post by OpanaPointer » 19 Feb 2021 15:08

Futurist wrote:
19 Feb 2021 03:25
OpanaPointer wrote:
18 Feb 2021 19:39
So, would China have challenged Japan for Korea when the Communists took over?
In order for China itself to dominate Korea, similar to the situation in Qing Dynasty times?
Yeah. The Chinese have never liked having land borders with Qui-loh.
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