How many forces would have Germany needed in France to defeat the Normandy landings?

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Juan G. C.
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How many forces would have Germany needed in France to defeat the Normandy landings?

Post by Juan G. C. » 15 Feb 2021 10:21

Just what the title says. What is the minimum of forces needed to defeat Operation Overlord?

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Aida1
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Re: How many forces would have Germany needed in France to defeat the Normandy landings?

Post by Aida1 » 15 Feb 2021 12:37

A stronger Atlantic wall, more higher qualty infantry divisions in the first line, some more behind that and Pz Div close enough to intervene quickly. Very difficult to achieve given the resources Germany disposed of.

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danebrog
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Re: How many forces would have Germany needed in France to defeat the Normandy landings?

Post by danebrog » 15 Feb 2021 12:58

The forces parked by A.H. at Pas de Calais to repel the "actual" invasion....
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Re: How many forces would have Germany needed in France to defeat the Normandy landings?

Post by maltesefalcon » 15 Feb 2021 13:26

IMHO the key weakness on the German side was air power. Due to the overwhelming strength of the allied air element Germany had trouble manouvering and supplying the forces they already had available.
Plus they could do little to attack allied shipping in the channel. Thus the bridgehead could be reinforced, expanded and supplied with little risk of attack by air.
So you would need a significant victory by the Luftwaffe in the air battles Jan to June 1944.

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danebrog
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Re: How many forces would have Germany needed in France to defeat the Normandy landings?

Post by danebrog » 15 Feb 2021 14:18

That is absolutely true - by day. Night attacks with powerful ground units (tanks and infantry in a divisional framework - the very forces that were at the Pas de Calais) would have put the isolated beachheads in considerable distress during the first 48 - 72 hours.
CAS would not have taken place at all and the ship's artillery could only have had a very limited effect in order not to endanger their own forces.
If the combat parties were interlocked, the effectiveness of such support measures would then also have been significantly reduced.
For a rough comparison, take a look at the Anzio-Nettuno operation and the comparatively weak forces with which the Wehrmacht inflicted losses on the Allied landing forces because they were initially unable to expand the bridgehead far enough.

As a German, however, I am not at all unhappy about the actual outcome of the invasion: otherwise the red flag would have even flown over Cologne and Munich - Sa sdorowje! ;-)

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Re: How many forces would have Germany needed in France to defeat the Normandy landings?

Post by MLW » 15 Feb 2021 14:29

It is quite possible that the Germans already had enough forces. The problem - for the Germans - was that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Re: How many forces would have Germany needed in France to defeat the Normandy landings?

Post by MLW » 15 Feb 2021 14:33

danebrog wrote:
15 Feb 2021 14:18
As a German, however, I am not at all unhappy about the actual outcome of the invasion: otherwise the red flag would have even flown over Cologne and Munich - Sa sdorowje! ;-)
I agree. That is the real significance of the Normandy invasion. It kept the Soviets from taking all of Germany and perhaps even more of Western Europe.

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Terry Duncan
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Re: How many forces would have Germany needed in France to defeat the Normandy landings?

Post by Terry Duncan » 15 Feb 2021 15:48

No attempt to meet the requirements for a suitable What If scenario and so the topic is now locked.

Terry

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