Tom from Cornwall wrote: ↑
16 May 2021 08:57
daveshoup2MD wrote: ↑
16 May 2021 00:05
Little hard on the European civilians who died in 1943-45 because of the delay, but, oh well ... too bad for them, I guess, right?
No, a tragedy for them. But a failed 1943 invasion of France would have been even more of a tragedy.
Weren't most of the non-German civilians who died in 1943-45 killed in operations directly related to the invasion of Europe? Transportation bombing, bombing of Channel Ports, bombing in support of ground offensives, etc...
So would a failed 1944 invasion of France. So would a failed 1945 invasion of France. So would have been a failed 1919 invasion of Germany. So what?
Given the Germans were demonstrably weaker in France in 1943 than they were in 1944, it's an open question whether the odds of an Allied failure were higher or not; rational consideration of the correlation of forces and the distance involved between the Eastern Front and Western Front in 1944 and between the Eastern Front and a potential Western Front in 1943 would suggest strongly otherwise. That's a topic for another thread, however.
As far as the European civilians and non-combatants who died in 1943-45 while awaiting the defeat of Nazi Germany, this "weren't most of the non-German civilians who died in 1943-45 killed in operations directly related to the invasion of Europe? Transportation bombing, bombing of Channel Ports, bombing in support of ground offensives, etc..." is a very
Hum, who is missing? Do these individuals "count," in your book?
The victims of the V-weapons campaign? 30,000 casualties in the UK alone, according to the IWM (not to mention those in France, Belgium, the Netherlands, etc.)
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-terr ... 0homeless.
Or there are these individuals, of course:
- European Jewish civilians
Soviet civilians (non Jewish)
the institutionalized disabled
"Undesirables" (homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc.)
(Western) Allied POWs
See: https://www.statista.com/chart/24024/nu ... zi-regime/
REINHARD alone began in March 1942 and lasted 21 months, concluding in November 1943, and some 1.7 million men, women, and children are estimated to have been murdered, largely at the three key death camps Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka.
Your response will be illuminating...