Hitler killed

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Antonio Pena
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Hitler killed

Post by Antonio Pena » 12 May 2002 22:53

What will have happened if Hitler died in the Burgerbraukeller?

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Antonio Pena
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Hitler killed

Post by Antonio Pena » 13 May 2002 22:13

Maybe don't understand the scenario.
Prior to the WWII in the course of a Nazi Party celebration in the brewery Burgerbraukeller an attempt to kill Hitler was done by a old member of the Communist Party (directed by the Gestapo?). Many old Nazi Party memebrs were killed, but Hitler slip unscathed.
But What if he was killed? his sucessor (Göring as President of the Reichstag, Hess as Deputy of the Führer) will have the same authority and capacity of leadership? A sucession war between the heavyweights of the NSDAP will be possible?, and what position will take the Army?
Please go with your minds to these times and think
Thanks

Mister X
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Post by Mister X » 13 May 2002 22:24

I think they wouldn't be that big. Many people claim that Hitler was 'scaringly attractive' (hope you understand). Even if you didn't like him, you somehow followed him. None of the other NSDAP people had that 'charisma'.

Pumpkin
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Post by Pumpkin » 14 May 2002 10:55

That was in November 1939, right? I think that Germany would've seeked peace with the UK and France after a period of Sitzkireg. Or maybe instantly on the news of Hitler's death.

The Wehrmacht was reluctant to wage war and without Hitler, they would've had their way. I think that Soviet's only opportunity to attack Germany successfully, was while Germany was at war with UK and France. Otherwise, the western powers would be inclined to support Germany in a defensive war against Soviet. But Soviet wasn't prepared then. Without a Soviet attack, there would've been no greater war in Europe. The Sitzkreig would've been just a diplomatic game.

Domestically, Germany would've become an average slumbering fascist state whose corps of leaders never would've embarked on an adventurous conquest of the east. Maybe noone could've done Germany, and even national socialism, a greater favour than that murderer? Even postumous Hitler's reputation would've benefitted! But then again, if Hitler was right in his fares of a planned communist aggression and the passivity of the burgoise west, Soviet might soon have rolled over all of Europe without much resistance.

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Antonio Pena
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Hitler killed

Post by Antonio Pena » 14 May 2002 21:15

Very interesting, but I am going further, what about Poland?. France and england will conform with his desaparition?, of course Germany in case of peace will be obliged to return his independence but what about the part occupied by Russia, and what about the Baltic States presented to Stalin by the Molotov-Ribbentropp Pact?, and also could Russia attack Finland?

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Re: Hitler killed

Post by Phaethon » 25 May 2002 12:24

Antonio Pena wrote:What will have happened if Hitler died in the Burgerbraukeller?


I posted this in response to another thread 'reading "The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich' and
":

BakedAlaskan wrote:.....wondered how many times you have shaken your head while reading how"Operation Barbarossa"played out.It would have been so frustrating to deal with what the German generals had to deal with.Granted,they could have taken care of him before became a problem but didn't.

What would have been the perfect time to assassinate Hitler?Before the war?After the conquest of France?After the initial phases of Barbarossa?

Your thoughts?


It is often said that if Hitler had died in 1938 he would have been hailed for all time as Germany's greatest leader.

However I wonder just how much would have changed if just Hitler were removed. Many of the foundations for ' The Final Solution', such as the Nuremburg Laws, the anti-semitic propaganda, euthanasia programs for the variously handicapped, were in place as were the key players, Himmler, Heydrich et al. I don't believe that Germany under a Hittler-less Nazi party would have just stopped dead in its tracks, there was too much momentum and too many like-minded people in charge.

Militarily, I also wonder if Goring would have done anything differently. I don't know enough about Goring's character and behaviour to speculate in any depth, but would the war have progressed overall any differently under his command? Once he was handed the Chancellorship wouldn't his residual good military instincts have been corrupted absolutely by absolute power? Wouldn't he fall into the same ambitious hubris-trap as Hitler. And wouldn't his drug habit have done for Goring what Hitler's various psychoses did for him. And behind Goring, or whoever succeeded Hitler, would still be the 'usual suspects' - the manipulative sycophants who praised and goaded Hitler on and encouraged and nurtured his self-belief. Wouldn't these pressures come to bear full force on a successor to complete Hitler's plans and ambitions for conquest and cleansing, all clearly laid out in Mein Kampf - which would take on an even greater role as 'Bible for the Reich' had the author died in 1938.

Finally I also wonder, if Adolf Hitler had never been born, would history have been all that different? Would Nuremburg have rung to cries of Heil Goring or Heil Rohm. Hitler was a small man with a few key talents who got lucky and took advantage of the situation that Germany found itself in after the Great War. Surely if Hitler had not existed, someone else would have 'filled the void. There must have been many such dreamers in the slums and doss-houses of post-great war Germany and Austria.

You can really tie yourself in knots with this kind of thinking. It's either a great cure for insominia or a recipie for nightmares when your mind is turning them over before sleep (depending on the conclusions you draw)

It is often said that if Hitler had died in 1938 he would have been hailed for all time as Germany's greatest leader.

However I wonder just how much would have changed if just Hitler were removed. Many of the foundations for ' The Final Solution', such as the Nuremburg Laws, the anti-semitic propaganda, euthanasia programs for the variously handicapped, were in place as were the key players, Himmler, Heydrich et al. I don't believe that Germany under a Hittler-less Nazi party would have just stopped dead in its tracks, there was too much momentum and too many like-minded people in charge.

Militarily, I also wonder if Goring would have done anything differently. I don't know enough about Goring's character and behaviour to speculate in any depth, but would the war have progressed overall any differently under his command? Once he was handed the Chancellorship wouldn't his residual good military instincts have been corrupted absolutely by absolute power? Wouldn't he fall into the same ambitious hubris-trap as Hitler. And wouldn't his drug habit have done for Goring what Hitler's various psychoses did for him. And behind Goring, or whoever succeeded Hitler, would still be the 'usual suspects' - the manipulative sycophants who praised and goaded Hitler on and encouraged and nurtured his self-belief. Wouldn't these pressures come to bear full force on a successor to complete Hitler's plans and ambitions for conquest and cleansing, all clearly laid out in Mein Kampf - which would take on an even greater role as 'Bible for the Reich' had the author died in 1938.

Finally I also wonder, if Adolf Hitler had never been born, would history have been all that different? Would Nuremburg have rung to cries of Heil Goring or Heil Rohm. Hitler was a small man with a few key talents who got lucky and took advantage of the situation that Germany found itself in after the Great War. Surely if Hitler had not existed, someone else would have 'filled the void. There must have been many such dreamers in the slums and doss-houses of post-great war Germany and Austria.

You can really tie yourself in knots with this kind of thinking. It's either a great cure for insominia or a recipie for nightmares when your mind is turning them over before sleep (depending on the conclusions you draw)

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Post by Pumpkin » 25 May 2002 14:25

Personally, I think that Hitler was something very very special. Sure, even without him there would've been an anti-communist movement in Germany, and maybe even a fascist dictatorship in the end (but more likely a communist one). But there is a world of difference between dictators like Mussolini, Franco and other European dictators, and on the other side Hitler. Hitler must've been a political genius out of this world. He was that close to conquring the lion share of Euroasia. And he literally started with two empty hands (unlike the wealthy Roosevelt and Churchill) and he did not advance within an established movement (like Lenin, Stalin or Napoleon).

The fascists and aristocratic generals that would've taken over Germany if Hitler died, surely was a potent combination which would not have shuned a war. But I think they would've lacked Hitler's vision and political skill. They would maybe have aimed at a partition of Poland, that's it. To Hitler, Poland was merely a prelude to barbarossa. I think that post-Hitler Germany would've been like Mussolini's Italy. It's military projects would've been limited and only moderately successful.

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