Best Japanese strategic choice with hindsight

[Carl Schwamberger]

At 1.30 in this clip, the general tells Roosevelt: "If the Japanese invade us right now, they could penetrate as far as Chicago before we could stop them!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFhY6IaUJ40

I don't have the transcripts of Roosevelts meetings at the time. From what I have read it looks like a overly dramatic Hollywood distortion of about every detail. I suspect there was no such grand meeting as depicted, with all the heavyweights around a table. It was not Roosevelts style, preferring smaller more productive meetings aimed at specific items. Having sat through 50+ years of meetings Im with him on that.

Were these words actually said, and was this the actual paltriness of US defences at that time?

The US had started mobilization in the late summer of 1940. All the Army and Navy reservists had been called to active service, the National Guard ordered into Federal service and incorporated into the US Army. Over one million men had been recruited as volunteers & drafted into the Army and navy. In December 1941 the US was around the two million man mark in the US Army, with over 40 ground combat divisions organized and equipped. Conversely the Japanese cargo fleet then was under six million tons, which was grossly inadequate to support a army across the entire Pacfic. What the scene represents is the sense of extreme surprise and near panic in the winter of 1941-42.

[OpanaPointer]

In an alliance with the US Japan would be only a satellite .

LOL

[ljadw]

It is the truth .
US would demand disarmament of Japan, withdrawal from China, Manchuria,Korea.
Japan wanted to be the dominant power in South-East-Asia ,something US refused .

[Takao]

In an alliance with the US Japan would be only a satellite .

Better to be the right hand of a god then trampled under his feet.

[OpanaPointer]

It is the truth .
US would demand disarmament of Japan, withdrawal from China, Manchuria,Korea.
Japan wanted to be the dominant power in South-East-Asia ,something US refused .

Or offer an alternative, help Japan become the power it is today via industrialization and trade.

[ljadw]

It is the truth .
US would demand disarmament of Japan, withdrawal from China, Manchuria,Korea.
Japan wanted to be the dominant power in South-East-Asia ,something US refused .

Or offer an alternative, help Japan become the power it is today via industrialization and trade.

Japan did not want the alternative in 1941,neither would US offer this alternative, besides this alternative was not possible in 1941 .

[Peter89]

It is the truth .
US would demand disarmament of Japan, withdrawal from China, Manchuria,Korea.
Japan wanted to be the dominant power in South-East-Asia ,something US refused .

Or offer an alternative, help Japan become the power it is today via industrialization and trade.

That would be close to impossible. The markets Japan could use for its development were colonies almost without exception.

Also Japan was so far ahead of the region both in economy and in military that no bilateral agreement was possible as long as Japan wasn't controlled by an external power which was clearly stronger than Japan.

The USA entered the war not for ideologies or pennies: but to create a new world order. And part of that new world order was the abolition of colonial empires. They realized what the peacemakers after WW1 did not: Germany, Japan, etc. must have a future and an economic stability that does not depend more on their neighbours than the neighbours' economy on them. This idea (so far the best idea) stood in direct contrast with British, French, Dutch, Portuguese, etc. ideas.

[ljadw]

The Japanese were in 1941 still traumatized by the visit of Commodore Perry in 1853 and the Japanese army would never accept a withdrawal from China after the tens of thousands of deaths it had suffered in this war .It would revolt,with the support of the people,and kill everyone who was willing to do concessions to the Americans .

[ljadw]

In an alliance with the US Japan would be only a satellite .

Better to be the right hand of a god then trampled under his feet.

Not for the samurai with their bushido doctrine : honor was more important than death . A glorious death meant honor .It was better to die than to give up honor .

[OpanaPointer]

The maniacal samurai were a minority. Helping the moderates might have tipped the scales in their favor. (No guarantees, of course.)

[Takao]

In an alliance with the US Japan would be only a satellite .

Better to be the right hand of a god then trampled under his feet.

Not for the samurai with their bushido doctrine : honor was more important than death . A glorious death meant honor .It was better to die than to give up honor .

There were no Samurai in 1940, having been long ago dissolved.

Further, given the tread title, becoming a US satellite is the best outcome for Japan with hindsight.

[OpanaPointer]

"Samurai-mindset" if you will then.

[Takao]

"Samurai-mindset" if you will then.

Ultra-Nationalist militant mindset is more to the point.

Even Samurai had to obey their master, while the Japanese Ultra-Nationalist militants only paid lip service to obeying the Emperor, their master.

[glenn239]

I missed the part where the Japanese Alien Space Bats took Vladivostok.

Who cares what you missed?

The question was why would the Americans send military aid to Japanese occupied Vladivostok.

[glenn239]

US would demand disarmament of Japan, withdrawal from China, Manchuria,Korea.

The US can certainly demand Japan withdraw from China and Korea, but they'd be hopeless to make the Soviets do so.