Hitler dies (N-causes) after the Anschluss but before Munich

Discussions on alternate history, including events up to 20 years before today. Hosted by Terry Duncan.
ljadw
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Re: Hitler dies (N-causes) after the Anschluss but before Munich

#46

Post by ljadw » 08 May 2023, 16:38

Princess Perfume wrote:
06 May 2023, 21:27
Once the dictator is gone,things collapse - e.g. Libya after Gaddafi. Without the military's rule, which has been both open and behind the scenes over the decades, Pakistan would collapse into chaos and fierce fighting between various political and religious factions.
Germany was not Libya or Pakistan .Besides,Libya collapsed not after, but before Gadaffi was out .

ljadw
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Re: Hitler dies (N-causes) after the Anschluss but before Munich

#47

Post by ljadw » 08 May 2023, 16:47

The Sudeten German problem would not go away after the death of Hitler .And the most likely successor of Hitler, Goering,would have followed the same policy as Hitler,with the same results : Munich, German occupation of Czechia and war with Poland on 1 September 1939 .
The results would be the same,because the problems were not created by Hitler .
And there was no other serious candidate to succeed Hitler than Goering .


ljadw
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Re: Hitler dies (N-causes) after the Anschluss but before Munich

#48

Post by ljadw » 08 May 2023, 16:51

Princess Perfume wrote:
08 May 2023, 02:35
gebhk wrote:
07 May 2023, 11:28
Hi Princess Perfume
How does Germany find its way back to democracy as Hitler dies between taking Austria and the Sudeten crisis?
Even if the Nazis fall in this world, there's still the problem of Prussia and the junkers plus all those Prussians from Konigsberg to Aachen who still hanker after the Hohenzollens.
I think the issues of whether (a) WW2 happens and (b) Germany returns to the democratic 'fold' need to be considered separately. Ironically, it could be argued that had the NSDAP survived under a reasonably sane leader, the chances of WW2 are less than if a democratic or pseudo-democratic Germany emerged for exactly the reasons you quote. There was certainly a strong hankering within many parts of German society for a return to its WW1 Eastern empire as well as the lands it lost to Poland after WW1. Let's not forget that German belligerence towards Poland after WW1 was significantly dampened by Hitler when NSDAP came to power and this had not changed significantly by the time of his death in this WI. It is not unreasonable to assume that had the NSDAP lost its grip, these revanchist ambitions would again have bubbled up to the top making war with Poland a distinct possibility.
If the Prussians' price in the post-NSDAP world in my timeline is the 9th, then the question that will face Germany is "who?".

Wilhelm II's son is unacceptable. Louis Ferdinand is possible.... but he's married to Kira Romanova of the former Russian imperial family which will agitate the Soviet Union.
Why would the Crown Prince be unacceptable ?

Princess Perfume
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Re: Hitler dies (N-causes) after the Anschluss but before Munich

#49

Post by Princess Perfume » 08 May 2023, 22:53

Crown Prince Willy was worse than useless. An oaf to put it mildly.

ljadw
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Re: Hitler dies (N-causes) after the Anschluss but before Munich

#50

Post by ljadw » 09 May 2023, 07:08

Princess Perfume wrote:
08 May 2023, 22:53
Crown Prince Willy was worse than useless. An oaf to put it mildly.
He could be useful as a figurehead ,a compromise candidate ,if army and party did not agree about a successor .

gebhk
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Re: Hitler dies (N-causes) after the Anschluss but before Munich

#51

Post by gebhk » 09 May 2023, 07:43

And there was no other serious candidate to succeed Hitler than Goering .
The trouble with power vacuums is that it is very difficult to predict everyone who will be sucked in and who will be destroyed by the process.
Crown Prince Willy was worse than useless. An oaf to put it mildly.
If being a useless oaf was a bar to being head of state, then maybe half the rulers throughout history would not have happened. Indeed a harmless oaf was often seen as the better option because he could be more easily steered in the 'right' direction by those who 'managed' him or her while the opposition might see him as less of a threat.

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