What kind of a nation would Germany be now if Hitler won?

Discussions on alternate history, including events up to 20 years before today. Hosted by Terry Duncan.
Xenon
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Post by Xenon » 10 Jul 2002 23:25

HETMAN wrote:
Xenon wrote:An article which should be of special interest for you : http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0 ... 43,00.html

Yup, some peasants went on a rampage back in the 40s and now the German media has someone else to point a finger at. Well done.

Anyway, a similar question to the one I posed above was answered by Poland. Remember that we were occupied by the Soviet Union for 45 years, and forced to adopt a system almost as tyrannical as Nazi facism. Not only was Poland one of the most liberal countries behind the Iron Curtain, but also partly responsible for the collapse of communism in Europe. What about East Germany? Those bunch of drones would've still been living under communism if not for Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic. Those East German fools swallowed every bit of propaganda churned out by the Soviets. How sad.

Your worldview, full of envy, hate and prejudice is unbelievable. Your serious lack of history is frightening, every serious debate seems absolutely hope- and senseless. I'm happy that many poles i know are much more educated then you are.

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Benoit Douville
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Post by Benoit Douville » 11 Jul 2002 02:05

Hetman simply ask a what if question about if Hitler and Germany had won the war and an interesting one and some other neighbors reply with insults!

To answer the question i think that Hitler would probably be dead by now and the next leader of the Third Reich would have eventually have to face the criminal activities of the Third Reich because if Germany had one the war there would have been no Nuremberg... And sure Germany will be probably today a more open society.

Hetman made a good point that East Germany can say thanks to Polska for freedom right now because they are partly responsible for the collapse of communism thanks to the great Lech Walesa.

Davey Boy
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Post by Davey Boy » 11 Jul 2002 03:34

Xenon wrote:Your worldview, full of envy, hate and prejudice is unbelievable. Your serious lack of history is frightening, every serious debate seems absolutely hope- and senseless. I'm happy that many poles i know are much more educated then you are.

Go suck on your hat.
Last edited by Davey Boy on 11 Jul 2002 04:00, edited 1 time in total.

Davey Boy
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Post by Davey Boy » 11 Jul 2002 03:46

Ovidius wrote:
HETMAN former General Anders former DPWES wrote:Germany eventually see the error of its ways
HETMAN former General Anders former DPWES wrote: oppressive, blood thirsty, uptight, parasitical state that it was during WWII?
HETMAN former General Anders former DPWES wrote: International mass media and contacts with other cultures and societies would have that effect on the Germans. They could surely not remain isolated, xenophobic, racist and close minded for eternity. Look what American and English occupation did to them in only a few years.
A very interesting chain of ideas, I'd say :mrgreen:

In the light of these ideas, I'm going just to ask him(and others) a question:

What kind of a nation would Generalgouvernement der Polnischen Gebiete be now if Hitler won?

I'm soooooooooo interested to read his & others' answer.......... :mrgreen:


~Ovidius

Well that depends on the answer to my original question, doesn't it?

If Germans were now a normal, civillized people (despite a Nazi victory), things could be very interesting. I'm sure there'd be all sorts of efforts on their part to make it up to the Polish people.

On the other hand, if they were still a bunch of goose stepping freaks, then Poland would be no more, and our biggest city would be Chicago. Most of the Polish population would be dead, in exile, or assimilated into Third Reich society thinking they were as German as those silly lederhosen shorts.

Dan
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Post by Dan » 11 Jul 2002 04:07

Polish German relations seem quite good. There was something on the news the other night about Polish workers going to Germany to pick asperagas. Seems two months in Germany doing manual labor is more that what Poles make in an entire year in Poland.

They seem like Germany's Mexicans.

Davey Boy
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Post by Davey Boy » 11 Jul 2002 04:16

Dan wrote:Polish German relations seem quite good. There was something on the news the other night about Polish workers going to Germany to pick asperagas. Seems two months in Germany doing manual labor is more that what Poles make in an entire year in Poland.

They seem like Germany's Mexicans.

Many Poles are Germany's Mexicans. Can't be avoided I'm afraid, not after sitting behind the Iron Curtain for that long. But please note that the former East Germany is a total basket case. There is a welfare mentality there due to years of backing from the west. At least Poles have to fight for everything we get. That's a good thing in the long term. I remember reading an article in Stern magazine last year, in which the author basically said that unlike the East Germans, Poles were standing on their own two feet.

Karl
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Post by Karl » 11 Jul 2002 05:31

The question is an interesting one and one that I have thought of often. Since I in all probabilities would be a citizen of that 'Reich', it has crept up in my mind many times while reading about that time.

But this came from a certain DPWES, a Pole that believes that all Prussians are estate holding aristocrats, that all Germans are Prussians, that all the German people were in the military and that all the military people joined because they enjoyed killing Poles so much. :monkee:

Ho hum.

But anyway, the closest comparison I would make is that of communist China. The country is controlled by a small group of old men (the politburo) and they understand only too well what they must do to cling onto power. Any organisation outside the State is illegal. Any demonstrations are suppressed and the perpetrators are swiftly arrested, put away in some state prison to rot for who knows how long...if they get out at all. Even though their market has opened up considerably since the late 70's and even with their membership into the WTO, the state still has it's iron fangs on most everyday life of the ordinary person. Internet controls, media controls, travel controls, etc.

I would dislike very much to live under a government like that.

Regards.

Davey Boy
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Post by Davey Boy » 11 Jul 2002 05:48

Karl wrote:The question is an interesting one and one that I have thought of often. Since I in all probabilities would be a citizen of that 'Reich', it has crept up in my mind many times while reading about that time.

But this came from a certain DPWES, a Pole that believes that all Prussians are estate holding aristocrats, that all Germans are Prussians, that all the German people were in the military and that all the military people joined because they enjoyed killing Poles so much. :monkee:

Ho hum.
No, I believe that Prussians are prats who wanted to force my family into being something they weren't. I also believe Germany wanted to wipe out my culture entirely from Europe, killing many of my countrymen and women in the process. That's all.

Mistel1
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Post by Mistel1 » 11 Jul 2002 06:59

[No, I believe that Prussians are prats who wanted to force my family into being something they weren't. I also believe Germany wanted to wipe out my culture entirely from Europe, killing many of my countrymen and women in the process. That's all.]

I didn't understand the reason for the venom in van Grimberg's and Xenon's replies, and thought they were prejudiced. But this...

Davey Boy
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Post by Davey Boy » 11 Jul 2002 07:09

Mistel1 wrote:[No, I believe that Prussians are prats who wanted to force my family into being something they weren't. I also believe Germany wanted to wipe out my culture entirely from Europe, killing many of my countrymen and women in the process. That's all.]

I didn't understand the reason for the venom in van Grimberg's and Xenon's replies, and thought they were prejudiced. But this...

What? Are you saying this comment is wrong? Which part? The one about the Prussian oppression of Polish people, or the one on Nazi plans for Poland. If so, then I'd suggest you go and learn some history.

Ovidius
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Post by Ovidius » 11 Jul 2002 07:51

Karl wrote:But anyway, the closest comparison I would make is that of communist China.


Yeah right, another one who thinks the Hitlerian regime was some sort of Communism :mrgreen:

I thought we've had enough of this before.

~Ovidius

Mistel1
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Post by Mistel1 » 11 Jul 2002 08:57

What? Are you saying this comment is wrong? Which part? The one about the Prussian oppression of Polish people, or the one on Nazi plans for Poland. If so, then I'd suggest you go and learn some history.
German doesn't mean Nazi...

I think the whole world has come down on Germans (they lost the war)
that everything German between 1933-45 is evil, and 1946-60's debatable...

And i agree i have to learn much; not only history, but every aspect of life.
But i'll learn objectively and without prejudices unlike someone else...

Davey Boy
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Post by Davey Boy » 11 Jul 2002 09:15

Mistel1 wrote:
What? Are you saying this comment is wrong? Which part? The one about the Prussian oppression of Polish people, or the one on Nazi plans for Poland. If so, then I'd suggest you go and learn some history.
German doesn't mean Nazi...

I think the whole world has come down on Germans (they lost the war)
that everything German between 1933-45 is evil, and 1946-60's debatable...

And i agree i have to learn much; not only history, but every aspect of life.
But i'll learn objectively and without prejudices unlike someone else...

Yes, of course, you're right. Nazis came from Pluto.

Mistel1
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Post by Mistel1 » 11 Jul 2002 09:33

German doesn't mean Nazi...

I think the whole world has come down on Germans (they lost the war)
that everything German between 1933-45 is evil, and 1946-60's debatable...

And i agree i have to learn much; not only history, but every aspect of life.
But i'll learn objectively and without prejudices unlike someone else


Yes, of course, you're right. Nazis came from Pluto.
Hmmm that is, you think German=Nazi.
If this is your point of view, OK. I only tried to make my point clear on the basis that every German need not be a Nazi. You think differently, and you have the right to do so. Go on...

Davey Boy
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Post by Davey Boy » 11 Jul 2002 09:51

Mistel1 wrote:
German doesn't mean Nazi...

I think the whole world has come down on Germans (they lost the war)
that everything German between 1933-45 is evil, and 1946-60's debatable...

And i agree i have to learn much; not only history, but every aspect of life.
But i'll learn objectively and without prejudices unlike someone else


Yes, of course, you're right. Nazis came from Pluto.
Hmmm that is, you think German=Nazi.
If this is your point of view, OK. I only tried to make my point clear on the basis that every German need not be a Nazi. You think differently, and you have the right to do so. Go on...

...Mars, Venus and Saturn. Oh yes, and a few Nazis also came from the moon.

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