Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 15 inch guns

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Tim Smith
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Post by Tim Smith » 05 Sep 2005 23:22

Roddoss72 wrote: Then explain the Tirpitz, she was ordered to Norway on the 16th January 1942, where she remained for the rest of the war, and the only offensive action she participated in was shore bombardment on Spitzbergen on the 16th September 1943 with the Scharnhorst, other than that she never put to sea again in an offensive role, the Tirpitz the became a surrogate German sponsored floating target for the RAF and the FAA, Germany built these dangerous ships but did not know how to engaged them, in no small part due to Hitlers insistance that capital ships were never to be deployed when the RN had Aircraft Carriers in the area.
Slightly off topic, but I'll answer. No follow-up questions about Tirpitz though!

Tirpitz was used as the core of a 'German Fleet In Being'. As long as Tirpitz is afloat and seaworthy, she is a threat, and the British are forced to escort every Arctic convoy with a naval force consisting of at least one (preferably two) battleships and one carrier, plus attendant cruisers and destroyers. And the British needed at least two such forces, so that one could be at sea while the other was refuelling and refitting in port. Which means that a powerful British naval force has to be kept in the Home Fleet and can't be deployed to the Mediterranean or the Pacific.

The mere existence of Tirpitz was therefore of great benefit to the Italians and Japanese, even if Tirpitz hardly ever puts to sea.

Von Schadewald
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Post by Von Schadewald » 01 Oct 2005 14:14

Without daylight at those latitudes in December, was Scharnhorst's radar up to taking out JW55B, had she found it? Would she have used searchlights to iluminate the freighters for her 11" muthas?

Baggins
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Post by Baggins » 03 Oct 2005 22:23

GRAN CAPITAN wrote:IMO S & G were not up to the task because of their 280mm guns. If we ranked them as battlecruisers, we realize that they were in fact much weaker than Repulse or Kongo (both designed 20 years earlier). Among the contemporary vessels, and despite its odd layout, the French Dunkerke was also better a ship.

Had the German navy chosen 380mm guns from the start, I think that S & G would have become very fine ships, capable to take on any old and new battle cruiser and even on some old WWI vintage battleship.
Even with 6 x 380mm guns, lengthened hulls and clipper bows, they were still not up to the task because of their poor seakeeping - they pitched horrendously in rough seas and their A turrets were frequently unusable due to the bows being washed by large waves. The lighter but very accurate and long-ranged cannons were a lesser fault by comparison

~Frodo Baggins from the Shire

Wkole
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Re: Scharnhorst and Gneisenau with 15 inch guns

Post by Wkole » 28 Jan 2023 06:40

Even though the 280 mm has a 9 gun spread and faster rate of fire a 380 mm to a Renown or a Ramilles would be a distinctive hit. The revised bow section was designed to improve buoyancy forward and sea keeping. How different is this revised Scharnhorst or Gneisenau to the Renown. Probably the same as the Bismarck to the Hood…

Thoddy
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Re:

Post by Thoddy » 13 Mar 2023 20:39

Von Schadewald wrote:
01 Oct 2005 14:14
Without daylight at those latitudes in December, was Scharnhorst's radar up to taking out JW55B, had she found it? Would she have used searchlights to iluminate the freighters for her 11" muthas?
Rather old but the convoy was shadowed by aircrafts equipped with Funkmess.
"Meine Herren, es kann ein siebenjähriger, es kann ein dreißigjähriger Krieg werden – und wehe dem, der zuerst die Lunte in das Pulverfaß schleudert!"

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