sub on sub action

[Denim Demon]

I found out on the uboat.net that subs actually sank other subs during ww2, and this is probably a rather stupid question: the submarine which got hit must have been in surfice position, or am I wrong beliving that the sub technology of the time did not involve a capability to sink other submerged subs?

regards
dd

[Heimatschuss]

Hello Denim Demon,

you forgot the sound guided torpedoes that homed in on the noise of a ship's propeller. The Kriegsmarine had them since 1943 (Zaunkönig) though I never heard of one employed against allied submarines. The western allies had sound guided weaponry at least in 1945. I read somewhere about a submerged german u-boat that was sunk off Bergen (Norway) in late spring '45 by a such a torpedo. But I cannot recollect if it had been dropped by a patrol plane or came from an allied submarine. Others might be able to provide more details.

BTW, sub on sub activity also includes mining the approaches to important submarine harbours with sea mines dropped by submarines. If the artcile you refer to is just a short list such incidents may also be contained in there.

Best regards
Torsten

[Andreas]

Here is the list of RN submarines lost:

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/chalcraft/sm/losses.html

As you suspected, most of those that fell victim to an U-Boat seem to have been on the surface at the time.

All the best

Andreas

[Denim Demon]

thanks guys : )

that u-boot lost off Bergen story is what got me sucpisous in the first place, but it didnt say anything about sound guided torpedoes. Ive learned something new today.

regards
dd

[Heimatschuss]

Hello Denim Demon,

it was HMS Venturer that sank U-864 on Feb.9th, 1945. I found this site with good details of the sinking:
http://www.klammi.de/Personen/Page11095 ... 64-13.html

Actually no sound guided torpedoes were employed in this case. U-864 was at periscope depth and looking out for an escort vessel to get them back to Bergen. Thanks to ULTRA decrypts HMS Venturer had been placed to intercept U-864 at that position. The periscopes allowed Venturer's captain to calculate the course of U-864.

A real loss to a sound guided torpedo was U-326 on April 24th, 1945.

U 326 (Kptlt. Matthes) wird am 25.4. westl. von Brest durch Angriff der Liberator ,K’ der VPB-103 USN mit Zielsuchtorpedo Mk.24 versenkt.

Source: http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/seekrieg/45-04.htm

Good introduction to acoustic torpedoes: http://uboat.net/allies/technical/fido.htm

Best regards
Torsten

[Denim Demon]

Hi,
Thank you so much for the info and the links Torsten,
unfutnately I didnt bother much with german when I went to school, something I highly regret now...

regards
dd

[Andy H]

USS Corvina (SS-226) 16 Nov 43 82 killed
Torpedoed and sunk by Japanese submarine I 176 south of Truk

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq39- ... chor521073

Regards

Andy H

[Christian W.]

Finnish submarines sank a number of Soviet submarines during the war, but I don't know the details.

[Denim Demon]

Thank you for the info guys

that link didnt work though
thanks anyway

regards
dd

[Hop]

According to Submarines of World War Two by Erminio Bagnasco, British submarines sank 35 enemy submarines during the war, and one enemy sub was sunk by mines laid by British submarines.

He also says the HMS Venturer sinking of the U-864 was the first where a submerged submarine was sunk by another sub, given it's so late in the war it might be the only case where that happened.

[redcoat]

He also says the HMS Venturer sinking of the U-864 was the first where a submerged submarine was sunk by another sub, given it's so late in the war it might be the only case where that happened.

You are correct, It is the only time in naval history where a submerged sub has sank another submerged sub,

[Andy H]

Thank you for the info guys

that link didnt work though
thanks anyway

regards
dd

The link works fine

Regards

Andy H

[doruk akyüz]

I heard somewhere, British naval strategists found the Hunter Killer Doctrine in WWI and made a special submarine for hunting subs. I don't know its effective or not...

[Karwats]

AFAIK Hunter Killer Groups were surface ships specifically tasked with hunting submarines ie. not having any escort duties at all. Similar to modern ASW Task groups.

Some older Naval personnel refer to Attack Submarines as Hunter kiIllers, don't know if this is a 60's era holdover from the RN and affiliated commonwealth navies, Ive heard it amongst senior officers in the British,South African and Australian navies.