The Mystery of U 235

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the submarine forces of the Kriegsmarine.
ohrdruf
Member
Posts: 861
Joined: 15 May 2004 22:02
Location: south america

The Mystery of U 235

Postby ohrdruf » 29 Dec 2006 04:22

In a new book by Jorge Camarasa ("Puerto Seguro", Norma Editorial, Buenos Aires, 2006, ISBN 987-545-370-6), the author quotes from a declassified Argentine Government Memorandum originating from the Direccion de Coordinacion Federal, document DAE 568 dated 14 October 1952 in which the Head of Cordoba Delegation writes to the Head of the Division of Foreign Affairs in a memorandum classified "strictly confidential and secret".

The document refers to transfers of gold to Argentina by Bormann and then continues:

"Movements by foreigners. I bring to your attention that our agents (names deleted) have detected at Ascochinga, in the mountainous region of Cordoba province, a farm located on the Cerro Negro which has been acquired by a former officer who disembarked from U 235 at the Mar del Plata submarine base.

"This boat, together with other German submarines, came to Patagonia from Germany after the conclusion of hostilities. For some time in the same place, regular meetings have been held between high ranking Nazis such as financiers Ricardo Leute and Heinrich Dörge in an apparent attempt to organize, or perhaps re-organize, under the swastika."

According to the official history, U 235 commanded by Friedrich Huisgen was depth charged and sunk in error on 14 April 1945 by the German torpedo boat T-17 in the northern Kattegat. The wreck has never been located, and we only have the word of the Kriegsmarine that the tragedy ever happened.

In an interview with various inhabitants of Ascochinga in July 2003, author Camarasa established that the house in question is situated on the highest ridge of Cerro Negro. The "former officer" called himself "Otto Rehklau" or "Otto Freider" and appeared to have no family or personal history. He arrived at Cerro Negro in 1950 and died there of a heart attack in 1984. Nobody could remember where he was buried and nobody came to enquire about him subsequently.

Camarasa provides further evidence that one and possibly two German U-boats unloaded along the coast near Mar del Plata in late July 1945 and that the Argentine Government probably collaborated in the endeavour.

Peter
Financial supporter
Posts: 3451
Joined: 24 Nov 2002 11:13
Location: Europe

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby Peter » 24 Aug 2009 18:35

This boat should not be confused with the massive 1944 built Type XB boat U 234 (Fehler) which surrendered on a long range mission to Japan.

Conspiracy theorists have been known to miss the fact that U 235 was not a sister vessel but an elderly patched up 1942 built training boat of Type VIIC which had been badly bomb damaged and sunk on 14 May 1943 at the Germaniawerft shipbuilders in Kiel during a raid by bombers of 8th USAAF.

U 235 was lifted from the bottom and repaired being returned to service on 29 Oct 1943 but relegated to training only duties - I suspect that the Kriegsmarine realised that given the extent of the damage and repairs required they could not trust that she would withstand the rigours of warfare on the open ocean.

U235 was sunk in error in the Kattegat at 0700hrs on 14 April, 1945 in position 5744North x 1039East, by the German torpedo boat T17 in a depth charge attack, mistaken for an intruding Russian submarine.

Her crew were killed and are commemorated on the U-boat Memorial
Aulenbach Alfred FkMt. 15.03.1922
Barz Paul MtrOGfr. 06.02.1924
Bergmann Waldemar MaschMt 14.03.1921
Bochholz Erwin MaschMt. 20.07.1922
Brehm Otto OBtsMt 06.06.1922
Brög Georg MtrGfr 23.10.1924
Dehn Karl BtsMt 04.02.1921
Erfurth Paul MechOGfr 30.04.1925
Fischer Helmut MtrHGfr 28.04.1924
Francke Anton MtrOGfr. 02.10.1924
Golde Horst OMasch. 10.11.1917
Götze Walter MaschOGfr. 16.10.1925
Groth Jens-Peter Lt.z.S. 26.06.1921
Härth Hilmar MaschOGfr. 10.10.1925
Hartmann Herbert FkOGfr 16.11.1925
Henke Harro MtrOGfr. 15.02.1922
Hillenbach Karl OMaschMt 17.05.1921
HUISGEN FRIEDRICH KL
Itzek Alfred Mtr. 15.02.1922
Jakmann Arno MtrOGfr. 23.07.1923
Jakobs Anton Mtr. 03.05.1924
Janson Otto MechGfr. 27.02.1925
Jurisch Helmut MaschOGfr. 18.12.1924
Kästner Otto OMaschMt. 08.08.1921
Krambs Otto OMaschMt 08.01.1919
Kuhn Max-Christian FkMt 19.08.1921
Lommerzheim Hans MaschOGfr 05.05.1924
Loos Hermann MaschOGfr 26.02.1923
Moritz Helmut OMasch. 31.01.1915
Müller Herbert Lt.z.S. 12.02.1924
Neulinger Herbert Lt.z.S. 07.03.1923
Ott Günter FkOGfr 30.06.1924
Rockstroh Gerhard-Wilhelm MaschOGfr 27.06.1923
Rotter Helmut MtrOGfr. 19.06.1925
Ruchotzke Bruno MtrOGfr. 09.12.1925
Sahrhage Walter MaschOGfr 09.04.1925
Schächinger Alfred FkOGfr 15.03.1925
Scherb Otto Maat 05.02.1915
Schilling Günther MaschGfr 05.03.1924
Schmitz Günther MaschOGfr 17.11.1924
Schwenzfeier Leo BtsMt 06.01.1923
Steinborn Erich MtrHGfr 10.05.1922
Stolzenau Erhard OLt.ing LI 11.12.1923
Surbach Paul MtrOGfr 21.04.1924
Thote Paul OStrm. 24.06.1920
Winkler Erich MaschOGfr. 14.07.1924

ohrdruf
Member
Posts: 861
Joined: 15 May 2004 22:02
Location: south america

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby ohrdruf » 24 Aug 2009 19:53

After investigation locally with Argentine Navy sources I understand that the submarine from which the officer came ashore at Mar del Plata had the number "235" painted in large white characters on the conning tower. This was the reason why it was assumed to be U 235 in the Argentine naval intelligence report. Why a number should have painted on the conning tower, as was the practice pre-war, I do not know.
Witnesses who saw a larger submarine inshore near San Antonio del Tuyú on 17 July 1945 stated that this one had "124" painted on the conning tower. The witnesses in this case identified the submarine as being of the same Type as U 530 which surrendered the previous week.

stevebecker
Member
Posts: 906
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 03:04
Location: Australia

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby stevebecker » 25 Aug 2009 11:03

Mate,

German U Boats had numbers painted on them pre war but not during the war.

S.B

tommy303
Member
Posts: 580
Joined: 21 Dec 2004 17:54
Location: arizona

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby tommy303 » 25 Aug 2009 18:38

Disinformation, perhaps?

User avatar
Takao
Member
Posts: 2415
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 19:27
Location: Reading, Pa

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby Takao » 27 Aug 2009 10:13

Perhaps, U 124, an IXB boat, was sunk in April, 1943.
Last edited by Dieter Zinke on 13 May 2012 08:20, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: not U-124 - only correct is: U 124 without hyphen

User avatar
red devil
Financial supporter
Posts: 621
Joined: 25 Nov 2004 02:11
Location: Sutton Coldfield England

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby red devil » 23 Sep 2009 23:27

U 234 = U Boat 234

mikekoss@ct.metrocast.net
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: 13 May 2012 03:14

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby mikekoss@ct.metrocast.net » 13 May 2012 03:48

I have written a history of U 235 and have spoken to eyewitnesses to the sinking. The boat U 235 is at the bottom Northwest of The Skaw in the Skaggerak. The CO Huisgen replaced it's CO H-E Kummetz due to severe injuries on April 1, 1945 from an air attack.

The original bomb damage to U 235 was to its starboard torpedo tubes and doors with no damage to the pressure hull and was, unlike the assumptions made in this publication unfit for the rigors of war action at sea.

When refitted with a snorkel, Dönitz and his top staff went aboard and rode the boat submerged. The boat was not ancient and fragile. It was going to war during early April 1945. Had it been weak U 235 would have been used as a Flak boot and not as a submerged vessel of war.

The witness of U 235's sinking was the CO of T-17 who described the joy of his crew as they thought they hit a British submarine. Joy went to horror when pieces of bodies, uniforms and papers eventually floated to the surface, identifying it as U 235. T-17 dropped all of it's depth charges point blank on the submarine.

I have spoken to or have written depositions of key people involved with U 235. Whatever boat landed at Patagonia is NOT U 235.

Mike
Last edited by Dieter Zinke on 13 May 2012 08:24, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: not U-235 - only correct is: U 235 without hyphen. And Dönitz - not Doenitz !!

User avatar
red devil
Financial supporter
Posts: 621
Joined: 25 Nov 2004 02:11
Location: Sutton Coldfield England

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby red devil » 13 May 2012 14:29

thank you Mike, VERY interesting. On my site I have a complete list of all U Boats sunk in WW2 and 235 is listed as sinking here - 50-13 N, 12-48 W by:

T17

My link above, to the U 234, has changed. I now have all my UBoat stuff here

U Boats
Last edited by Dieter Zinke on 16 May 2012 13:21, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: U-234 is not correct, but U 234 (without hyphen !)

mikekoss@ct.metrocast.net
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: 13 May 2012 03:14

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby mikekoss@ct.metrocast.net » 14 May 2012 21:50

Where did you get the location? The Brits have her last radio message at 54.28N x 10.30E. Consubs later sent a warning to U 235 and U 1272 after a German ASW attack in AO 4434 (58.01N x 11.00 E.

From what I understand, Schatterburg U 1272 and U 235 received a garbled message which Schatterburg ignored. U 235 began to turn west at that point. I do not have a grid map so I'm not sure. My understanding U 235 was destroyed north of the Skaw at Skagen.

U 235 ran right across the German convoy "Preussen" which departed Fredrikshaven Denmark a day after CONSUBS changed the sea lane traffic separations. Personally I doubt this accident would have happened if her skipper (since 1943) been aboard. Huisgen, the new CO was a reservist, called in after Kummetz was shot and seriously wounded at the base.

Mike
Last edited by Dieter Zinke on 16 May 2012 13:21, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: U-235 and U-1272 are not correct, but U 235 and U 1272 (without hyphen !)

User avatar
red devil
Financial supporter
Posts: 621
Joined: 25 Nov 2004 02:11
Location: Sutton Coldfield England

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby red devil » 14 May 2012 22:23


mikekoss@ct.metrocast.net
Member
Posts: 5
Joined: 13 May 2012 03:14

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby mikekoss@ct.metrocast.net » 14 May 2012 23:37

I received information U 235 was actually a Type XIC, number unknown which made the trip.

Also, go happen to have a grid map of the Kattegat/Skaggrak area?

Mike
Last edited by Dieter Zinke on 16 May 2012 13:18, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: U-235 is not correct, but U 235 (without hyphen !)

User avatar
red devil
Financial supporter
Posts: 621
Joined: 25 Nov 2004 02:11
Location: Sutton Coldfield England

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby red devil » 15 May 2012 05:10


Atrevida
Member
Posts: 65
Joined: 18 Dec 2011 20:47

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby Atrevida » 15 May 2012 15:51

"Black boats" had a number painted on the conning tower. From the account by Matrosenobergefreiter Anton Staller in the book he co-authored, he was assigned to a black boat at Bremen Vegesack yard in April 1945. His orders were to identify the boat by a number painted on the conning tower and report aboard. (See the thread "Black boats" below).

In the book "Hirschfeld" (Pen & Sword/USNIP 1997), Oberfunkmeister Wolfgang Hirschfeld mentioned the small containers he saw being loaded aboard U 234 at the quayside at Kiel under the control of two Japanese officers in February 1945, and which bore the stencilled mark "U 235".

Hirschfeld asked the Japanese oficers what this meant and was told that it had been intended to load this cargo aboard U 235 but "that boat is no longer going to Japan". When Hirschfeld checked at flotilla he discovered that U 235 was a Type VII training boat never intended to leave the Baltic, and so knew that the Japanese had lied to him.

In 1952, the Argentine financial intelligence service declassifed a document identifying the purchase of a property in the mountains of Córdoba province by a former German officer "at which Nazi reunions were held" with named senior Nazi financiers and intelligence leaders in Argentina. This officer had "disembarked at Mar del Plata from U 235 at the end of the war, this submarine then being en route for Patagonia with other German submarines which had come down from Europe". The document appears in translation in the opening thread.

Therefore it would appear that "U 235" was a black boat given that duplicate number for convenience at a time when it was originally intended that it would sail with U 234 for Japan, but was then withdrawn for the purposes of conveying passengers to Patagonia, Argentina. The suspicion is that black boat "U 235" was an advanced boat, possibly a Type XXI but it is not certain, on a sale or transfer voyage to Japan which fell through.
Last edited by Dieter Zinke on 16 May 2012 13:17, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: U-235 or U-234 are not correct, but U 235 or U 234 (without hyphen !)

User avatar
red devil
Financial supporter
Posts: 621
Joined: 25 Nov 2004 02:11
Location: Sutton Coldfield England

Re: The Mystery of U 235

Postby red devil » 15 May 2012 16:41

Why are people assuming there were 2 x U 235's? Surely this is conspiracy theory at its best? :milwink: This is how I am reading these posts. The real U 235's fate is known so why conspire to create a second from what is obviously erroneous history. All these theories only serve to confuse the issue.


Return to “U-Boats”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot]