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To day is 08 of May 2016 . 71 years end of war .
I 've got question to ohdruf about this writing :
(14) The US Report states: "He (Otto Wermuth) had no identification of any kind to support his statement that he was actually in command of the submarine. Upon being questioned as to whether or not he could substantiate this, after much reflection he recalled that one of his seamen had married a girl in Kiel by proxy and radio during the voyage and that he, as commanding officer of the submarine, had signed the marriage document." He might have commanded the boat in April, but obviously he had not been the commander of U 530 when the boat was brought into Mar del Plata in July, or even the Argentines would have remembered, since it was only three days before.
How is it possible to celebrate a wedding cérémonie at distance in middle of the atlantic ?
Imagine you are a Captaine of an U boot at end of war and you know That all communication are listen by the allied .
If this storie is true somebody might have suggest this celebration . Somebody with enaugh power to influence a sea men and is commander to order this wedding.
Devil is in the détail and ohdruf you gave lot of détail and you are real factual it is great.
So many stupidity on the Net.
Only a woman on board could have think about a wedding .
I let you imagine the name of this woman.
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Coronel Bustos describes Wermuths as 26 years old however the Wermuth in the photo was born July 28, 1920. Making him 16 days shy of his 25th birthday. How can we account for this discrepancy? Rounding up just prior to ones b-day is normal but that would be 25 not 26 as reported.Sid Guttridge wrote:Hi Ohdruf,
I would suggest that "castaño", or chestnut, might also reasonably describe the usual photo of Wermuth:
Besides, hair tends to get blonder with prolonged exposure to the sun. Wermuth had just spent months underwater or surfaced at night. His hair had probably never been darker.
Here is the Argentine photo of him you refer to:
It looks much like the same man to me.
I would suggest that this whole line of approach is of little or no evidential value because shade of hair changes in different environmental conditions and description of hair colour is subjective.
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This the story. "At one o'clock on the afternoon of 15 February 1946 "amid scenes of protest and public lament", the contingent of 811 men was led to the quayside. The Argentine Army officers who had charge of the prisoners to the ship's gangplank collected up all the identity docuemnts and dropped them into a single large bag which was handed over to the Royal Marines officer as the ship was about to cast off. In this way the identities of the men could not be verified against the documents, and the British naval attaché on the quayside suspected at once that "some substitutions might have occurred."
According to Canadian historian Professor Newton, employed by the Argentine Government to write the history of the country in the Second World War and its aftermath for Argentina, in his book El Cuarto Lado del Triangulo (Buenos Aires, 1995, p.336 and 424) he stated: "...it was discovered during the identity checks on the voyage to Europe that 86 U-boat men were repatriated with the Admiral Graf Spee prisoners. It was not clear when and how these men had got to Argentina in order to be repatriated from there."
A black mark for Sid Gutteridge who often makes things up under the pretext "from memory".
Now I have a confession to make. Unbeknownst to me and following certain revelations which have become available very recently to the public from an unimpeachable major authority involved in the Second World War, it would appear that both U 530 and U 977 went to the same different area immediately after the war, having been given orders to do so before the war ended. This was not the area which their war diaries and charts had shown. Therefore the declassified interrogation reports on their crews will have been fictionalized to a certain extent by all the parties.
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I missed your earlier reply.
I use the formula "from memory" to indicate that I do not have the original source to hand, thereby leaving the reader to make up his own mind. This is called honesty.
You post, "86 U-boat men were aboard the Highland Monarch but none of them were from U 530 or U 977."
You know this because of what source?
86 U-boat men is almost exactly the crew total of U-530 and U-970 after the officers are subtracted, so the coincidental numbers, place and timing is remarkable if they are not from these two submarines.
Furthermore, as you are apparently certain "none of them were from U 530 or U 977" you must presumably know where they did come from.
P.S. Histarmar, a very good Argentine marine website, says, "Un procedimiento idéntico se Ilevó a cabo cuando el U-977 se rindió en agosto. Cuando los tripulantes del U-977 llegaron a los Estados Unidos, algunos de ellos fueron recluidos en celdas especiales con los tripulantes del U-530 (Wermuth y Schaeffer estuvieron juntos durante un tiempo). Antes de finalizar el año, los 86 miembros de la tripulación fueron devueltos a la Argentina. Desde allí fueron repatriados a Alemania en febrero de 1946, al momento de la repatriación de los reclusos del Graf Spee." This is not specific that they were with the Graf Spee crewmen on the Highland Monarch (as Histarmar mentions elsewhere), but the numbers involved are identical with your "....it was discovered during the identity checks on the voyage to Europe that 86 U-boat men were repatriated with the Admiral Graf Spee prisoners.", and the timing is right.