U-boat deck guns - I need your help

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butterfly
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U-boat deck guns - I need your help

Post by butterfly » 05 Aug 2015 16:10

Hello everyone I am new to the Axis History Forum but have been active on other forums for sometime. I was recommended to join by an existing member as I was told that there were knowledgeable people on here.

I would like a little help regarding the deck guns used on the U-boats, but to be a little more specific, the sights used on these guns. I have what I believe to be an optical sight from a 8,8 cm gun used on the type VII U-boat, and indeed have found period images which show identical sights mounted. However it is difficult to be 100% certain from images and would like to have conclusive proof. I am also having problems distinguishing between the 8,8 cm and 10,5 cm guns and cannot determine if the sight I have was specific only to the 8,8 or was also used with the 10,5.

The sight I have is marked DZ C/1 and if anyone is interested I can post some photos.

Ultimately I would like to know what gun/guns this sight was used with and if I am indeed correct that it was used aboard the U-boats, can anyone help me?

thank you in advance
regards Kev

butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by butterfly » 06 Aug 2015 13:25

Just to make everyone aware I am running a parallel thread to this one here, this one has images of the sight I have. Please feel free to add any comments/hlep, it is difficult to find out much about specific items like this, but I am confident that someone will know the answers to my questions...

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0#p1960270

I hope it is of interest
regards Kev

butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by butterfly » 10 Aug 2015 11:52

Can anyone on the U-boat Forum help with the following question...

I have now learned that the sight I have could be submersed to a depth of 15atm. However I have also learned that it was common practice to remove the sights as they would be subject to damage by depth charge attack, which makes sense.
However these are quite 'bulky' and heavy sights and there were two of them. So does anyone know where abouts on the Uboat these were stored when not in use?

regards Kev

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vladalex
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by vladalex » 11 Aug 2015 13:33

A special chamber with high pressure in tower, with easy access from the deck.
Source : Przemysław Federowicz, U-booty typu VII - Geneza, opis konstrukcji, budowa, Tarnowskie Góry 2006, pag.25-26, and general dwgs.
Regards,
Vladalex
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butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by butterfly » 11 Aug 2015 18:28

vladalex wrote:A special chamber with high pressure in tower, with easy access from the deck.
Source : Przemysław Federowicz, U-booty typu VII - Geneza, opis konstrukcji, budowa, Tarnowskie Góry 2006, pag.25-26, and general dwgs.
Regards,
Vladalex
Vladalex, many thanks once again, you have been very helpful!!

regards Kev

butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by butterfly » 11 Aug 2015 23:33

So I guess this raises another question; did the one compartment contain both gunsights used on the gun (left and right), or were there two compartments on either side of the conning tower, one for each sight?

I am also wondering if anyone has come across a photograph of the interior of this compartment?

(I apologise, one answer always raises more questions!!)

regards Kev

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vladalex
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by vladalex » 12 Aug 2015 09:06

At this point , my answers stops because no arguments, no pictures, no relates, nothing, ...
Basically, after a discussion on an interesting topic, we came slowly, slowly to a non issue ...
... and more questions possible to appear and go from nothing to nothing ...

regards Vladalex

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Jan7
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by Jan7 » 12 Aug 2015 09:22

vladalex wrote:At this point , my answers stops because no arguments, no pictures, no relates, nothing, ...
Basically, after a discussion on an interesting topic, we came slowly, slowly to a non issue ...
... and more questions possible to appear and go from nothing to nothing ...

regards Vladalex
Maybe in

https://goo.gl/JtjG7e

In a quick reading are some references.





Jan.
La llave de la libertad es la sabiduria. El cerrojo de la esclavitud la ignorancia

http://www.u-historia.com/ History of UBootwaffe in Spanish
http://www.forospyware.com/ In Spanish

butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by butterfly » 12 Aug 2015 10:02

vladalex wrote:At this point , my answers stops because no arguments, no pictures, no relates, nothing, ...
Basically, after a discussion on an interesting topic, we came slowly, slowly to a non issue ...
... and more questions possible to appear and go from nothing to nothing ...

regards Vladalex
Vladalex, I am very thankful for your posts and perhaps like you am surprised that only a few others have commented, I love learning new things and sharing information hence my initial thread. This is a total new area for me and so I learn, I have searched on the internet for photos of this area on the conning tower, and although I have found that there appears to be two doors on either side (which presumably both could contain a optic each, though I really am guessing), I have yet to find a photos showing them open. Previous to your answer I had only read that they were removed and kept inside the U-boat, locating the area has been very useful.

I understand your frustration too, perhaps the area is something that hasnt been looked into by many people and as such others feel not able to comment on a subject they know little about?
For me I would dearly love to know more, now I know the sights were kept in lockers, how were they stored? in boxes? on brackets like on the deck cannon with quick release? (I assume they would have to be easy access, not messing around with lots of catches etc??) - based on the fact that the 'ready use locker' for ammunition was provided for fast access I can only assume the sights would also be easy to remove from storage and fix ?.
The doors are clearly hinged but how are they fastened? I note also they hinge forwards?

.....It has been easy to find images of the sights mounted on guns in period photos, there are plenty as the deck guns are prominent in position you only need to find a photo showing the gun to see if sights are installed - unfortunately most images are relatively small and not much detail (I also am not sure on Forum rules as to posting other peoples images, I am happy to post my own but as a member of other Forums I know what trouble it can cause if you do not have permission and some are covered by copyright of course). What has not been easy is to find images of existing sights. The ones I have seen feature in a video and appear to have been restored after being recovered along with the gun off the isle of Jersey.....you can see the sights in this video...(toward the end)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9o4OXs9vOs

I am pleased that the sight has been of interest to you, I hope also it has been to others, despite lack of comments.
I will of course continue in my quest to learn more on this subject and should I find out new information I will happily post it for others to see.

kindest regards Kevan
Last edited by butterfly on 12 Aug 2015 10:19, edited 1 time in total.

butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by butterfly » 12 Aug 2015 10:16

Jan7 wrote:Maybe in

https://goo.gl/JtjG7e

In a quick reading are some references.


Jan.
Thank you Jan for your help also...........this looks to be a good link to possible information, I have had a quick look but need more time to look through them all.

regards Kev

butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by butterfly » 13 Aug 2015 08:56

I have been looking through images to try to find out more about the storage locker (lockers) for the optical gunsights. In doing so I have found this reproduction photograph being sold on ebay. I am not sure if this is the correct locker for the sights but it appears to have sustained damage to it. I cant find any images of the doors open (so far) but thought this one interesting to post.

(I will place a link to the auction as again I am not sure if its ok to post the image direct on the forum??)

http://www.ebay.de/itm/U-BOOT-KRIEG-FOT ... 35ef28caab

regards Kev

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Åkerberg
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by Åkerberg » 13 Aug 2015 14:51

Nice U 43 picture !!!!

Image

butterfly
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by butterfly » 13 Aug 2015 16:04

Åkerberg wrote:Nice U 43 picture !!!!
many thanks for the identification Akerberg.

I am interested to know more about the 'locker' circled red in the photograph. (it is damaged in the photo, by what cause I wonder?)

Is this a locker for the deck gun optical gunsight? (forum member Vladalex in an earlier post, clearly shows a locker on the Starboard side which he has marked as storage for the optical sight, however I am left unsure as to wether the same locker on the Port side is for the same purpose - being what appear two identical lockers on either side it is easy to 'assume' this to be the case. however experience has learned me not to assume anything and so need confirmation on this matter)

Kev
emblema-u43-sd.jpg
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Eisenfaust
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by Eisenfaust » 19 Aug 2015 12:28

Type VII U-Boats by Robert C. Stern

Page 97:

"A gun sight was provided for both sides of the mount. The sights were generally stowed inside the boat for safekeeping (so they wouldn't be knocked loose during depth-charging) and were brought up on deck only when the gun was to be manned. The sights were fastened in place by a large set screw in the appropriate mounting on the side of the gun."

Page 98:

"They would bring the gun sight up from below, if it wasn't already in place."

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Eisenfaust
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Re: U-boat deck guns.......... I need your help

Post by Eisenfaust » 19 Aug 2015 12:45

U-Boats in Action by Robert C. Stern.
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