Secret U-Boat Bases in Mexico, Spain and Elsewhere?

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the submarine forces of the Kriegsmarine.
MarkN
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Re: Secret U-Boat Bases in Mexico, Spain and Elsewhere?

Post by MarkN » 01 Nov 2018 22:58

Sid Guttridge wrote:
31 Oct 2018 18:18
... there is absolutely no evidence that this was even considered, let alone actually occurred.
Given that the subject matter under discussion was extra super-dooper top top very top hush hush secret, the lack of a contemporary paper-trail evidence chain provides no reason to conclude that it didn't happen. Surely, the lack of evidence is proof in itself of just how extra super-dooper top top very top hush hush secret it was. :wink:

The only thing that bothers me about this is why nobody on the internet knows anything about it. In the age of crowd-intelligence and crowd-knowledge and the ubiquitous smart phone, surely some poor Mexican, Spanish or Panamanian peasant has fallen upon the ruins of these bases whilst shepherding their flock of goats along the coast and uploaded their piccies to twitter, facebook and instagram! It's that lack of evidence that gives me deep cause for concern. :lol:

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Ironmachine
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Re: Secret U-Boat Bases in Mexico, Spain and Elsewhere?

Post by Ironmachine » 02 Nov 2018 06:44

The only thing that bothers me about this is why nobody on the internet knows anything about it. In the age of crowd-intelligence and crowd-knowledge and the ubiquitous smart phone, surely some poor Mexican, Spanish or Panamanian peasant has fallen upon the ruins of these bases whilst shepherding their flock of goats along the coast and uploaded their piccies to twitter, facebook and instagram! It's that lack of evidence that gives me deep cause for concern.
Well, I can't talk about Mexico or Panama, but the number of Spanish peasants that shepherd flocks of goats along the Spanish coast is very, very small. And those few are very busy people, they spend most of their time filling out the countless forms they need to submit to obtain health certificates for their livestock and collect their grants. No time left to search for secret U-boat bases. Surely that's the reason why we have no news about the bases. :lol:

Rob Stuart
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Re: Secret U-Boat Bases in Mexico, Spain and Elsewhere?

Post by Rob Stuart » 02 Nov 2018 11:48

Given that the subject matter under discussion was extra super-dooper top top very top hush hush secret, the lack of a contemporary paper-trail evidence chain provides no reason to conclude that it didn't happen. Surely, the lack of evidence is proof in itself of just how extra super-dooper top top very top hush hush secret it was. :wink:
This is a very astute observation. Given that lots of evidence has been found since the war ended of such super-dooper top top very top hush hush secret German Navy programs as Enigma, radar, blockade running, acoustic torpedoes, midget submarines, Metox, snorkels, the Walter U-boat, B-Dienst's successes against British codes, magnetic mines, the landing of spies on the coast of North America, the U-boat bases in Spain, the U-boat bases in Japanese-occupied territory, and so on, it follows from the lack of evidence about the secret bases in the western hemisphere that they were extra super-dooper top top very top hush hush secret.

Rzewsky
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Re: Secret U-Boat Bases in Mexico, Spain and Elsewhere?

Post by Rzewsky » 17 Dec 2018 13:04

williamjpellas wrote:
30 Sep 2018 07:01

Hi, Rzewsky!

I have long thought that Soviet military and government archives are a much-underutilized historical resource. A few Western historians---notably David Glantz and Rainer Karlsch---have gotten detailed looks at some Russian documents, but there is an enormous mountain of them that has never seen the light of day, even in Russia, since the war itself. Russian histories of the "Great Patriotic War" of course have their own weaknesses, but my point is that the Soviet perspective is nevertheless very important and is often overlooked in most books about the war that appeared in Western countries from 1945 until the end of the Cold War. Soviet paranoia and secrecy obviously had a lot to do with this, but so did scholarly sloppiness and inertia.

So, I am always glad to see original Soviet documents. In what archive did you find the document you posted? And, do you have a complete and reliable English translation?
Hi, William! I apologize for the long answer. I rarely visit this site. You have outdated information about my country. :) We have WWII archives open for a long time. Millions of documents are open, and these are original scans, combat orders, orders, maps . Everything is in direct access and anyone can get acquainted with them. I think that you are not fair to my country :) about paranoia and secrecy. Yes, sometimes we can see the same things differently, but this is only because we do not know each other well. I could ask you another question. You probably know about the death of the USS 233 "Herring" off the coast of the Kuriles? Did you know that a Russian expedition discovered her not so long ago? Do you know your government is up to date? And what did it do to commemorate the sailors? And why? Is it not paranoia?
And now essentially. Are you interested in this particular document? There will be problems with reliable English translation. Translation of combat documents is not so easy. Sites where you can work in Russian are called "Memory of the People" and "Feat of the People" pamyat-naroda.ru and podvignaroda.ru, there are others. If you have any problems, please, I will be glad to help.

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williamjpellas
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Re: Secret U-Boat Bases in Mexico, Spain and Elsewhere?

Post by williamjpellas » 22 Dec 2018 05:53

Hi, Rzewsky! Thank you for your contributions to this thread. Your links to Russian archives online are especially appreciated.

For the record I have great respect for the Russian people and my use of the term "paranoid" had to do mostly with the Stalin era, though the Cold War obviously featured great hostility between our two nations and their official establishments. In any case I welcome your interest and will message you through this site to see if I can ask you more specifics about some of the information you have discussed here.

Rzewsky
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Re: Secret U-Boat Bases in Mexico, Spain and Elsewhere?

Post by Rzewsky » 24 Dec 2018 18:37

Hi, William! Yes, ask me. I will try to answer. I worked in your archives remotely. I know how hard it is to work badly knowing the original language.

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