'Sultan' and 'Pascha'?

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AnJing201
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'Sultan' and 'Pascha'?

Post by AnJing201 » 28 Jun 2018 01:36

A bit of help, please? ;-)

Which u-boats belonged to Sultan and Pascha trials groups?

Is it possible to find any further (detailed?) info on two groups in any books, articles...?

Thank you!

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lionfish
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Re: 'Sultan' and 'Pasha'?

Post by lionfish » 28 Jun 2018 09:02

Hello,

For Sultan, this is U 393, and it had a Sultan painted in front of the conning tower.

http://dubm.de/lebenslauf-des-bootes-u-393/

I know U 1008 was also used in the Sultan group.

I have nothing about a Pascha group. Where did you find this information ?

Best regards,
Lionfish

AnJing201
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Re: 'Sultan' and 'Pascha'?

Post by AnJing201 » 28 Jun 2018 20:09

Thank you!

Where did I find this information?

Hmm... I think when I first started researching U 393. It's still not completely clear to me, how this 'Sultan' group actually worked (and even less, what was situation with 'Pasha' was), especially after reading radio messages. I was hoping someone out there had more info on this.

For Pasha I know U 876 was used. What about U A, UD 4, U 1161, U 1162, U 2325, U 2326...?

I'm guessing they weren't all officially asigned to either of these groups for longer period of time, but were used in trials? :/

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tigre
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Re: 'Sultan' and 'Pascha'?

Post by tigre » 28 Jun 2018 23:25

Hello to all :D; my two cents.......................

Pascha und Sultan.

U 1207 - From November 1944 to March 1945 the boat belonged to (Erprobungsgruppe für Überwasser-Ortungsgeräte) the testing group for over-water locating devices (Pascha).

U 393 - Boat is subordinated by the OKM for tests of the test group "Sultan". The underwater locating device (Unterwasser-Ortungsgerät) is installed, the rotating base on the back, the device in the central. Underwater locations with U 1008 im Fusafjord.

Source: http://www.ubootarchiv.de/ubootwiki/index.php/U_393
http://www.ubootarchiv.de/ubootwiki/index.php/U_1207

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

AnJing201
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Re: 'Sultan' and 'Pascha'?

Post by AnJing201 » 30 Jun 2018 01:27

Excellent "two cents". ;-) Thank you.

I'm pretty sure U 876 worked for 'Pasha' for a while... at least long enough for them to fetch hand calculator from A. Radermacher (at the time the former commander of U 393, who was in charge of underwater location unit – sorry, I have no idea whether that's the correct translation – 'Leiter der Unterwasserortnung').

TOO 0946 TOI 0922/20/10/44
FROM: SULTAN THROUGH U 393
TO: CAPTAIN (U/B) TRAINING FOR PASHA

PLEASE FETCH THE HAND CALCULATOR OF SULTAN TRIALS GROUP FROM LIEUT. (J.G) RADERMACHER IN 'WALTER RAU' AND BRING IT ALONG TO ROENNE IN U 867 (BAHN). PLEASE ACKWNOLEDGE AND REPORT ARRIVAL.

(it should read U 876; their mistake, not mine)

TOO 1734 TOI 1701/20/10/44
FROM: U 876
TO: U 393 FOR SULTAN

HAND CALCULATOR ON BOARD. ETA ROENNE 0800/22.


TOO 1115 TOI 1036/25/10/44
FROM: CAPTAIN (U/B) TRAINING
TO: U 393 FOR 'SULTAN'
U 876 FOR 'PASCHA'

SECRET 14944
DURING EXERCISES, DO NOT CROSS 1630 EAST TO EASTWARD.


TOO 1841 TOI 1825/22/10/44
FROM: SUTAN
TO: CAPTAIN (U/B) TRAINING

PLEASE SEND U 17 WITH OBERINGENFUR HORN TO ROENNE ON 24/10 TO RESUME CLOSE-RANGE ECHO-RANGING TRIALS. REQUEST CONFIRMATION AND ETA.

CC FROM: SULTAN
CC WITH OBERINGENIEUR


TOO 2358 TOI 2314/26/10/44
FROM: 'NORDLAND'
TO: NAVAL CHIEF COMMAND BALTIC
ADMIRAL (U/B)
CAPTAIN (U/B) TRAINING

POSITIONS AT 2400: 'SULTAN', 'PASCHA', U 17 AND 'NORDLAND2 IN ROENNE HARBOUR.

CC LINE 1 LAST GRP 'NORDLAND'

They apparently also got a bit of help from U 17.

So...
Sultan --> U 393
Pasha --> U 876
Nordland served as the target ship.

TOO 1426 TOI 1350/27/10/44
FROM: 'SULTAN' VIA 'NORDLAND'
TO: CAPTAIN (U/B) TRAINING
24TH U/B FLOTILLA

'NORDLAND' IS ON RETURN PASSAGE TO GDYNIA WITH U 393 AND U 876 AND WILL ARRIVE AT MEDDAY ON 28/10. TEST WITH 'NORDLAND' WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE UNTIL SHE HAS BUNKERED, STORED SHIP AND COMPENSATED. GYRO COMPASS IS OUT OF ORDER. LOOP TRIAL RUN IS URGENT AND HAS BEEN DUE SINCE 14/10. REQUEST FURTHER ORDERS FOR 'NORDLAND' BE SENT ON 392 KC/S.

CCC 2ND LINE LAST GROUP READ MIDDAY

TOO 1837 TOI 1931/28/11/44
FROM: SULTAN THROUGH U 393
TO: U 876, U 2325, U 2326
PASCHA TRIALS GROUP

R/V WITH PLANET ON THE MORNING OF 29/11 IN AO 8334. REPORT TIME OF ARRIVAL.


TOO 1927 TOI 1917/30/11/44
FROM: U 876 FOR NAVAL HARBOURMASTER ROENNE
TO: 5TH U/B FLOTILLA W/T CONTROL KIEL

ALL BOATS OF THE PASCHA AND SULTAN GROUP WHICH HAVE DIVED OFF BORNHOLM HAVE SURFACED.


Looks like U 393 also worked for location unit, if I uderstand correctly. OK, now I finally understand what the difference between Sultan and 'SU' group was. And that Radermacher was in charge of 'SU' unit...? Hm...

TOO 1817 TOI 1740/8/12/44
FROM: ((4 GROUPS CORRUPT))
TO: 'SU'

REGERENCE W/T MESSAGE 1136:
UA, U 1161, 1008, 393, 1162 EFFECTIVE. TARGET SHIP UD ((4)).


Thanks again for all your help.

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tigre
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Re: 'Sultan' and 'Pascha'?

Post by tigre » 30 Jun 2018 05:04

Interesting report. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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