In a web page http://www.libreopinion.com/members/neuschwabenland/ I read that 120 submarines dissapeared during the war and we do not know what happen with this u boats.
Some of the submarines are the next one. But the numbers are very strange and a i think that all is nonsense. Could somebody explain me if these u boats existed really. In U boot.net a very good web page of the u boats war are not mentioned.
Note: I translate some words of the list to be understanding for the non spanish forum members
A small list of the dissapeared german submarines
Submarine
- Service begining - submarine whereabouts
U 2111
15.05.44
matter no explained
U 2112
05.06.44
matter no explained
U 2113
07.06.44
matter no explained
U 2251
15.07.44
matter no explained
U 2252
17.07.44
matter no explained
U 2253
19.07.44
matter no explained
U 2254
20.07.44
matter no explained
to
U 2295
23.08.44
matter no explained
U 5034
15.11.44
matter no explained
U 5035
17.11.44
matter no explained
U 5036
18.11.44
matter no explained
U 5037
20.11.44
matter no explained
U 5251
10.10.44
matter no explained
U 5252
03.10.44
matter no explained
U 5253
11.10.44
matter no explained
U 5254
18.10.44
matter no explained
U 5255
13.10.44
matter no explained
U 5256
21.10.44
matter no explained
U 5257
15.10.44
matter no explained
U 5258
15.10.44
matter no explained
to
U 5269
03.11.44
matter no explained
U 5270
?
matter no explained
to
U 5350
?
matter no explained
U 5751
?
matter no explained
to
U 5800
?
matter no explained
U 6201
?
matter no explained
to
U 6245
?
matter no explained
U 6251
?
matter no explained
to
U 6300
?
matter no explained
Thanks
what happened with these u boats?
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panzertruppe2001
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http://www.uboat.net does have them listed, but because they are all classified as midget submarines you must use the "U-Boat Finder" to get to them. Most of the boats I plugged in were ordered but construction on them never began or the boat was cancelled.
The Hecht boats (U 2111 - U 2113, U 2251 - U 2300) had a very limited range (78 miles @ 3 knots surfaced) to be of much use, except for local defensive use. U-boat.net states that these boats were only used for training.
The others are of the Seehund type. These midgets possessed a better range than the Hecht, and were much more active. Some 138 boats being completed. Still they had a range of only 300km @ 7 knots, with 50 of the type being given enlarged fuel tanks that increased their range by roughly 50%.
My limited high school Spanish from 15 years ago took a beating, but I suspect the article is about another "conspiracy" theory. The list provided on the site would be better served if it included some of the larger U-boats and not the midget submarines. Some how I just don't see Hitler going to Argentina or the South Pole via a Hecht or Seehund. Although, it would be possible if the Germans had adopted a plan similar to the Japanese Kaitens. Which was using a mother submarine to transport the midget submarine close to a given destination and then release it. But, that would beg the question of why use a midget submarine at all, when a large submarine needed also to be used.
The Hecht boats (U 2111 - U 2113, U 2251 - U 2300) had a very limited range (78 miles @ 3 knots surfaced) to be of much use, except for local defensive use. U-boat.net states that these boats were only used for training.
The others are of the Seehund type. These midgets possessed a better range than the Hecht, and were much more active. Some 138 boats being completed. Still they had a range of only 300km @ 7 knots, with 50 of the type being given enlarged fuel tanks that increased their range by roughly 50%.
My limited high school Spanish from 15 years ago took a beating, but I suspect the article is about another "conspiracy" theory. The list provided on the site would be better served if it included some of the larger U-boats and not the midget submarines. Some how I just don't see Hitler going to Argentina or the South Pole via a Hecht or Seehund. Although, it would be possible if the Germans had adopted a plan similar to the Japanese Kaitens. Which was using a mother submarine to transport the midget submarine close to a given destination and then release it. But, that would beg the question of why use a midget submarine at all, when a large submarine needed also to be used.
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Simon Gunson
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- Location: Wellington, New Zealand
what happened with these u boats?
Dear Takao
It is a fairly safe bet that any U-boat with numbers over U 1000+ were not completed or destroyed by bombings of dockyards. Some of the U-boat dockyards in the Eastern Baltic were infact overrun by the Russians who shipped many back to Russia for copying.
U 1000 herself is an interesting case in point because she was sunk in the Baltic on a training mission. She was raised and disapeared off records. Many other u-boats that were sunk in the Baltic were raised, refloated, refurbished and put back into commission.
Others thought to have been salvaged but disappeared after salvage were U 957, U 547 and U 239
Of others which truely did disappear without trace U-196 left Djakarta on 30 November 1944. Sources claim she hit RN Fleet AA aircraft laid mines in the Sunda Strait, but Royal Navy records disclose the Sunda strait was not mined until a week later. Signals were sent to U 196 until January 1945.
There were sightings of a U-boat near Tasmania when U 862 was known to be near Sydney.
U 851 a large type ID X2 vanished in the South Atlantic in late March 1944 en-route to Japan.
U 925 vanished September 1944, U-702 in April 1944, U-703 Sept 1944.
U 590 was destroyed off the mouth of the Amazon river in July 1943, but her purpose for being there is vague.
There were also three U-boat units which had their own administrative units, but which no record survives of any U-boats assigned to them or activities. These were
U-training flotilla 20 (June 1943-May 45)
U-training flotilla 27 Gotenhaffen
U-training flotilla 28 Bornholm/Echernförde
Ladislas Farago has writen books alleging a secret Black fleet of U-boats operated to Argentina by the SS. Postwar Argentine naval archives support this claim as does a book called "Argentina's Nazi Eagles 1933-1945" Sorry can't recall the author. Farago refers to U-boats prior to Normandy using a bay near Cadiz and claimed that cargoes were shipped by road through Spain. In essence that this was a money laundering operation to flood the Bank of England with fake poud notes through Argentine banks. Frederic Schwend who operated this Nazi conterfeit ring settled in peru after the war with assistance from Banchero Rossi of the Caritas aid agency.
The real question arises because of a mystery U-boat found on Argentina's coast. This confounds and annoys people who like to put down conspiracy theories. This wreck in Patagonia is neither the U 977 nor the U 530 because these were towed back to the United States after the war and sunk by the US Navy in the North Atlantic (1946-47).
Those who attack conspiracy theories cannot explain either why after the war when the US Navy repatriated Graff Spee's crew from Argentina they also repatriated 85 U-boat crew members aswell ?
It is a fairly safe bet that any U-boat with numbers over U 1000+ were not completed or destroyed by bombings of dockyards. Some of the U-boat dockyards in the Eastern Baltic were infact overrun by the Russians who shipped many back to Russia for copying.
U 1000 herself is an interesting case in point because she was sunk in the Baltic on a training mission. She was raised and disapeared off records. Many other u-boats that were sunk in the Baltic were raised, refloated, refurbished and put back into commission.
Others thought to have been salvaged but disappeared after salvage were U 957, U 547 and U 239
Of others which truely did disappear without trace U-196 left Djakarta on 30 November 1944. Sources claim she hit RN Fleet AA aircraft laid mines in the Sunda Strait, but Royal Navy records disclose the Sunda strait was not mined until a week later. Signals were sent to U 196 until January 1945.
There were sightings of a U-boat near Tasmania when U 862 was known to be near Sydney.
U 851 a large type ID X2 vanished in the South Atlantic in late March 1944 en-route to Japan.
U 925 vanished September 1944, U-702 in April 1944, U-703 Sept 1944.
U 590 was destroyed off the mouth of the Amazon river in July 1943, but her purpose for being there is vague.
There were also three U-boat units which had their own administrative units, but which no record survives of any U-boats assigned to them or activities. These were
U-training flotilla 20 (June 1943-May 45)
U-training flotilla 27 Gotenhaffen
U-training flotilla 28 Bornholm/Echernförde
Ladislas Farago has writen books alleging a secret Black fleet of U-boats operated to Argentina by the SS. Postwar Argentine naval archives support this claim as does a book called "Argentina's Nazi Eagles 1933-1945" Sorry can't recall the author. Farago refers to U-boats prior to Normandy using a bay near Cadiz and claimed that cargoes were shipped by road through Spain. In essence that this was a money laundering operation to flood the Bank of England with fake poud notes through Argentine banks. Frederic Schwend who operated this Nazi conterfeit ring settled in peru after the war with assistance from Banchero Rossi of the Caritas aid agency.
The real question arises because of a mystery U-boat found on Argentina's coast. This confounds and annoys people who like to put down conspiracy theories. This wreck in Patagonia is neither the U 977 nor the U 530 because these were towed back to the United States after the war and sunk by the US Navy in the North Atlantic (1946-47).
Refloat of Nazi sub off Argentina coast considered
08:12 p.m Mar 31, 1998 Eastern US time
BUENOS AIRES, March 31 (Reuters) - Two residents of southern Argentina have asked permission to refloat a German World War II submarine sunk off the Patagonian coast, a German Embassy official
said on Tuesday.
German ambassador to Argentina Adolf Ritter von Wagner "received the letter and it is in transit," an embassy spokesperson said. "We don't know what the decision will be."
Antonio Rivera and Mirta Vicente pinpointed the location of the sunken German warship, which they claim to have seen in 1959, 1962 and 1966, newspaper La Manana del Sur reported.
Area residents believe Germans disembarked from warships on the coast in 1945 near the end of World War II.
Two other Nazi subs, a U 530 and a U 977, arrived in the port of Mar del Plata in July and August of that year.
Argentina was a haven for Nazi war criminals such as Holocaust architect Adolf Eichmann, who was captured in Buenos Aires after the war, and Hitler's confidant Martin Bormann.
REUTERS 1998.
Those who attack conspiracy theories cannot explain either why after the war when the US Navy repatriated Graff Spee's crew from Argentina they also repatriated 85 U-boat crew members aswell ?
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Kongo Otto
- Member
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 06 May 2004, 17:16
- Location: Germany
Re: what happened with these u boats?
Simon Gunson wrote: There were also three U-boat units which had their own administrative units, but which no record survives of any U-boats assigned to them or activities. These were
U-training flotilla 20 (June 1943-May 45)
U-training flotilla 27 Gotenhaffen
U-training flotilla 28 Bornholm/Echernforde
The U-Boot Ausbildungsflottile 20 (from June 1940 to June 1943 known as taktische U-Bootaubildungsflottille)
Made Preparation Courses for the tactical training(Vortaktische Ausbildung). This happened in Class Rooms so this Flottilla had no need for U-Boots.
The U-Boots Ausbildungsflottille 27
There new U-Boot Crews received their tactical Training
(Taktische Ausbildung Unterseeboote)
This Flottilla had one U-Boot detached it was UD-4 this Boat
has been used for Traning purposes.
After this Flottilla the U-Boat Crew went tho the Front Flottilas
A U-Boot Ausbildungsflottille 28 never existed.
A little bit of topic, but another example of u-boat that vanished in the thin air:
[/url]http://www.ubootwaffe.net/ops/boat.cgi[url]
Regards,
[/url]http://www.uboat.net/boats/u553.htm[url]U-553
The boat sent its last radio-message on 20 Jan, 1943 when it reported: "Sehrohr unklar" (Periscope not clear). She was never heard from again.
[/url]http://www.ubootwaffe.net/ops/boat.cgi[url]
Regards,
I think Simon Gunson could be a little clearer on the item to which Andy H drew attention.
If 85 U-boat men were repatriated aboard "Highland Monarch" together with the "Admiral Graf Spee" crew as he alleges, that should be of interest to us because officially there were no U-boat personnel either interned (prior to March 1945) or as PoWs (after March 1945) in Argentina or Uruguay.
When the 950 or so remaining "Admiral Graf Spee" crew assembled on the quayside at Buenos Aires to embark, their identification documents arrived in a single large bag. There was no check of identities against these documents before boarding, and the British naval attache remarked that in his opinion "there was no guarantee that a large number of substitutions might not have occurred".
If there were U-boat crew in Argentina who had arrived the previous year, 1945, in a surreptitious manner, it would not be surprising that some of them would attempt to return to Germany by whatever means available. More than 300 "Graf Spee" crewmen had married local girls and were settled with families in Argentina, and there was no lack of volunteers amongst them to exchange identities.
If during the voyage home the British began matching the repatriates against the documents, and eventually identified 85 imposters who had arrived by U-boat, this would tend to confirm what most of us in Argentina have always suspected, that rather more U-boats arrived in Argentina postwar that the two admitted.
To add to Simon Gunson's observations, there is a declassified Argentine archive document mentioning the shuttle service run by a single U-boat on a two monthly basis between Rota in Spain and San Clemente del Tuyu, the village nearest Cape Antonio lighthouse on the headland marking the chart boundary between the River Plate on its southern extremity and the South Atlantic. Local historians at Villa Gesell have identified the remains of a shed with a railway leading to the sea which is believed to have been used by a large motor sailing yacht used to rendezvous with U-boats and bring ashore passengers and goods.
In the 1960s during removal of sand-dunes by developers at Villa Gesell, a large underground bunker was discovered containing drums of diesel oil and submarine parts, and a few miles down the coast are the remains of a bunker used to signal to sea. In 1945, various persons of German ancestry were arrested at San Clemente del Tuyu and Necochea and under interrogation admitted exchanging signals with U-boats. For various reasons no charges were laid. The village of Villa Gesell was founded in 1942 by a German gentleman of the surname Gesell.
If 85 U-boat men were repatriated aboard "Highland Monarch" together with the "Admiral Graf Spee" crew as he alleges, that should be of interest to us because officially there were no U-boat personnel either interned (prior to March 1945) or as PoWs (after March 1945) in Argentina or Uruguay.
When the 950 or so remaining "Admiral Graf Spee" crew assembled on the quayside at Buenos Aires to embark, their identification documents arrived in a single large bag. There was no check of identities against these documents before boarding, and the British naval attache remarked that in his opinion "there was no guarantee that a large number of substitutions might not have occurred".
If there were U-boat crew in Argentina who had arrived the previous year, 1945, in a surreptitious manner, it would not be surprising that some of them would attempt to return to Germany by whatever means available. More than 300 "Graf Spee" crewmen had married local girls and were settled with families in Argentina, and there was no lack of volunteers amongst them to exchange identities.
If during the voyage home the British began matching the repatriates against the documents, and eventually identified 85 imposters who had arrived by U-boat, this would tend to confirm what most of us in Argentina have always suspected, that rather more U-boats arrived in Argentina postwar that the two admitted.
To add to Simon Gunson's observations, there is a declassified Argentine archive document mentioning the shuttle service run by a single U-boat on a two monthly basis between Rota in Spain and San Clemente del Tuyu, the village nearest Cape Antonio lighthouse on the headland marking the chart boundary between the River Plate on its southern extremity and the South Atlantic. Local historians at Villa Gesell have identified the remains of a shed with a railway leading to the sea which is believed to have been used by a large motor sailing yacht used to rendezvous with U-boats and bring ashore passengers and goods.
In the 1960s during removal of sand-dunes by developers at Villa Gesell, a large underground bunker was discovered containing drums of diesel oil and submarine parts, and a few miles down the coast are the remains of a bunker used to signal to sea. In 1945, various persons of German ancestry were arrested at San Clemente del Tuyu and Necochea and under interrogation admitted exchanging signals with U-boats. For various reasons no charges were laid. The village of Villa Gesell was founded in 1942 by a German gentleman of the surname Gesell.
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Simon Gunson
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- Location: Wellington, New Zealand
My apologies Ohrdruf, but in fact you know more about this than I do so I thank you for stepping in.
The book which I referred to above was not "Nazi Eagles over Argentina." I had photocopies from the pages of a chapter by that name and was confused as to the book's title.
This is the title and the book is well worth reading: RONALD NEWTON, The "Nazi" Menace in Argentina,1931-1947, Stanford, CA: Stanford University Press, 1992.
Ohrdruf here is a link in spanish:
http://www.tau.ac.il/eial/V_1/senkman.htm
The book which I referred to above was not "Nazi Eagles over Argentina." I had photocopies from the pages of a chapter by that name and was confused as to the book's title.
This is the title and the book is well worth reading: RONALD NEWTON, The "Nazi" Menace in Argentina,1931-1947, Stanford, CA: Stanford University Press, 1992.
Ohrdruf here is a link in spanish:
http://www.tau.ac.il/eial/V_1/senkman.htm
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Laurence Strong
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- Location: Alberta, Canada
Re: what happened with these u boats?
There were probably 100+ boats over that # that saw service.Simon Gunson wrote:Dear Takao
It is a fairly safe bet that any U-boat with numbers over U-1000+ were not completed or destroyed by bombings of dockyards. Some of the U-boat dockyards in the Eastern Baltic were infact overrun by the Russians who shipped many back to Russia for copying.
U-1000 herself is an interesting case in point because she was sunk in the Baltic on a training mission. She was raised and disapeared off records. Many other u-boats that were sunk in the Baltic were raised, refloated, refurbished and put back into commission.
I have a set of books called "Navies of the Second World War. German Submarines." by H. T. Lenton and it shows the fate of the boats.
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Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: what happened with these u boats?
I never heard of U-boats been operated before by the SS. Well I heard of the SS operated small lake and river naval vessels during WWII.
Edward L. Hsiao
Edward L. Hsiao