"Poland wanted war with Germany"

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Sid Guttridge
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by Sid Guttridge » 28 Sep 2018 20:13

Hi Steve,

I see. I thought you meant the French were going to supply the oil, which seemed curious as they had little or no production of their own.

The French also underwrote much of the cost of building the port of Gdynia as an alternative to Danzig.

Cheers,

Sid.

Tomislav
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by Tomislav » 18 Dec 2018 12:41

From my perspective whole discussion about Poland wanting war with Germany or not wanting it is a mistake. Hitler desired war with France to revenge for Great War and desired war with Soviet Union to destroy communism and establish Lebensraum. Poland took part in war on allied side but even if it stayed neutral or pro German it would not change a lot in the whole picture.

If there were no invasion of Germany over Poland in 1939 there were invasion of German over France erlier as it appeared and maybe also invasion over Russia earlier as it appeared (plus probably polish contribution in it). That is whole difference.

PeadarO
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by PeadarO » 02 Feb 2020 16:59

I am interested in this quotation. I believe it is very significant as it really does show Germany to be a victim of an International war rather than its instigator. When I google it I see that it is used very extensively in Internet debates. I think it unlikely that it is genuine. I note that the day in question is a Sunday and there was no Mail on Sunday until 1982. I contacted the Daily Mail directly and the answer was a bit inconclusive and not much use.
................................................................................................................................................................................
Enquiry: Hello Daily Mail, I wish to enquire about a quotation that appears quite frequently in Internet discussions. The quotation is as follows; "Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to" Allegedly said by Marshal Rydz-Smigly of Poland and reported in the Daily Mail on 6th August 1939. I have already established that the date in question was a Sunday and there was no Mail on Sunday at that time but rather than leave it at that I have decided to write to you to find out if it appeared in your newspaper on any other date. If it did, I expect that it would be around that time. Is there any way of checking Daily Mail Archives to find out if this quotation is genuine? Thank you in advance for any help. Peadar O'Colmáin
................................................................................................................................................................................
Dear Mr Ó'Colmáin
Thank you for your email.
I have had a brief look at our historical archive - which consists of scanned in copies of old editions - to see whether I could find the answer to your query. Based on a quick search, I was unable to find the quote you mentioned. I should point out, however, that this system has its limitations, and consequently, I cannot say with complete confidence that this did not appear in the paper. I am sorry we were not able to be of more help, but would like to thank you for taking the time to write to us. We wish you the best of luck in your search. Kind regards Managing Editor’s Office, Daily Mail
................................................................................................................................................................................
I then checked the Internet for information about that date and I see that Smigly made a major speech to 100,000 listeners on that day. There are quotes from it online but not that one. I can't get a copy of the full speech. The Nazi Soviet pact was announced on that day too. The Chicago Tribune on that day dealt with the speech and quotes Smigly on that very subject but that line doesn't appear. See here

https://www.newspapers.com/image/?clipp ... 5Jg0M5SOrA
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This is a real quotation from Hitler and it might add some credence to the Smigly quote;
“Marshall Rydz-Smigly lost his bearings. He was last heard of in Czernowitz instead of in Berlin and with him were his whole Government and all the deceivers who drove the Polish people into that act of insanity.” ~ Adolf Hitler, September 19, 1939
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So far I've drawn a blank. I still reckon it's a fake quote but I can't prove it either way. - Peadar

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wm
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by wm » 02 Feb 2020 23:00

There is no such a statement in the full text published by Polish newspapers at that time.

It wouldn't be even possible the Anglo-Polish military alliance hadn't been signed yet, and the Franco-Polish military protocol either so Poland still was on her own.

Hitler by attacking Poland eventually destroyed his beloved Germany quite thoroughly, so really he had nothing to boast about.
Last edited by wm on 03 Feb 2020 22:10, edited 1 time in total.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by Sid Guttridge » 03 Feb 2020 13:10

Hi wm,

Not only that, but his defeat introduced the Red Army into Central Europe.

Sid.

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 03 Feb 2020 14:17

Sid Guttridge wrote:
03 Feb 2020 13:10
Hi wm,

Not only that, but his defeat introduced the Red Army into Central Europe.

Sid.
I thought we were supposed to blame Truman ?

Sid Guttridge
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by Sid Guttridge » 05 Feb 2020 11:19

Hi Carl,

Its a bit difficult to reasonably blame Truman, as the Red Army was already in East/Central Europe before he inherited the Presidency.

Cheers,

Sid.

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 05 Feb 2020 17:13

Duplicate
Last edited by Carl Schwamberger on 05 Feb 2020 17:22, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Duplicate

Futurist
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by Futurist » 06 Feb 2020 01:52

Sid Guttridge wrote:
05 Feb 2020 11:19
Hi Carl,

Its a bit difficult to reasonably blame Truman, as the Red Army was already in East/Central Europe before he inherited the Presidency.

Cheers,

Sid.
Well, one can claim FDR and his unconditional surrender policy if one really wants to.

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 07 Feb 2020 01:54

Sid Guttridge wrote:
05 Feb 2020 11:19
Hi Carl,

Its a bit difficult to reasonably blame Truman, as the Red Army was already in East/Central Europe before he inherited the Presidency.

Cheers,

Sid.
I say, that was a joke son.

RIP Senator Cleghorn & Mel Blanc

Sid Guttridge
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by Sid Guttridge » 07 Feb 2020 11:48

Hi Fururist,

You post, "Well, one can claim FDR and his unconditional surrender policy if one really wants to."

Indeed one could, if one really wanted to ignore the facts, but I prefer to blame Hitler, who had already let Stalin into Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, half Poland and a couple of provinces of Romania in 1939-40 and then compounded the problem by launching a failed war against the USSR that let the Red Army into most of the rest of Eastern, Central and Balkan Europe in 1944-45.

Cheers,

Sid

PeadarO
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by PeadarO » 11 Feb 2020 19:29

Tomislav wrote:
18 Dec 2018 12:41
From my perspective whole discussion about Poland wanting war with Germany or not wanting it is a mistake. Hitler desired war with France to revenge for Great War and desired war with Soviet Union to destroy communism and establish Lebensraum. Poland took part in war on allied side but even if it stayed neutral or pro German it would not change a lot in the whole picture.

If there were no invasion of Germany over Poland in 1939 there were invasion of German over France erlier as it appeared and maybe also invasion over Russia earlier as it appeared (plus probably polish contribution in it). That is whole difference.
I just want to disagree with the comment by Tomislav. He says that "Hitler desired war with France to revenge for Great War". To make a statement like that we'd need a citation. Hitler hated France, We know that. He forced them to the railway carriage in Compiegne to sign the surrender and to humiliate them. That was clearly avenging the German surrender in 1918 but it is also clear that he wanted to avoid a war with France, especially when he knew that Stalin was getting ready for a war in the East at the same time.

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 12 Feb 2020 00:27

PeadarO wrote:
11 Feb 2020 19:29
...
I just want to disagree with the comment by Tomislav. He says that "Hitler desired war with France to revenge for Great War". To make a statement like that we'd need a citation. Hitler hated France, We know that. He forced them to the railway carriage in Compiegne to sign the surrender and to humiliate them. That was clearly avenging the German surrender in 1918 but it is also clear that he wanted to avoid a war with France, especially when he knew that Stalin was getting ready for a war in the East at the same time.
The usual reference is to remarks to the effect of 'One final battle with France to settle who dominates Europe'. These are supposed to have been connected to a war with France after the USSR was destroyed, post 1942. The earliest written reference for this from Hitler is in the 1924 edition of Mein Kampf. Perhaps someone has something for this in his later speeches or meetings. Its not a uncommon reference.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by Sid Guttridge » 14 Feb 2020 11:42

Hi Guys,

Hitler's initial aim was to reverse the Versailles settlement. As this included French possession of Alsace and Lorraine, neither of which the French were likely to surrender voluntarily, war at some stage was more than likely. He probably didn't need to make this explicit for it to be understood.

Cheers,

Sid.

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: "Poland wanted war with Germany"

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 14 Feb 2020 17:37

He may not have wanted to provoke France with public statements about Alsace & Lorraine. I believe it was refered to in meetings with Ribbentrop. The Malmdey area in Belgium was a similar case. The return of that area to the Reich got a commemorative postage stamp.

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