Polish artillery

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YAN
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Polish artillery

Post by YAN » 24 Jan 2007 13:09

Hi, Did the Polish army use the Skoda or The Schneider 220mm gun or howitzer or mortar Ive seen it called all three, any stats would be greatfull, and what was the 75mm AA gun used by the Poles, or was there at least three of theses also. Thanks Yan.

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The Edge
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Post by The Edge » 24 Jan 2007 13:54

Wz.32 220mm "mortar" (with L20 barrel, actually heavy howitzer) was Skoda product.
http://www.1939.pl/uzbrojenie/polskie/a ... index.html

Polish AA guns were: (three models used)
1) "Armata plot 75mm wz.1897/14/17" (French WWI material)
http://www.1939.pl/uzbrojenie/polskie/a ... index.html
2) "Armata plot 75mm wz.1922/24" (Schneider product)
http://www.1939.pl/uzbrojenie/polskie/a ... index.html
3) "Armata plot 75mm wz.36/37 Star" (original Polish production)
http://www.1939.pl/uzbrojenie/polskie/a ... index.html

For the rest of Polish 1939 artillery, see: http://www.1939.pl/uzbrojenie/polskie/a ... index.html

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Post by YAN » 24 Jan 2007 17:50

THANKS THE EDGE, DID THEY USE THE SKODA 75mm M.15 MOUNTAIN GUN TOO?, YAN

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David Lehmann
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Post by David Lehmann » 24 Jan 2007 21:28

Hello,

In my notes, concerning the Polish artillery, I have these numbers:

Field Artillery:
- 24x 65mm wz.06 French mountain guns
- 1230x Schneider 75mm wz.97 guns (also used in AT role) – Buffetaut indicates 1374 guns
- 466x 75mm Mle1902 Russian guns
- 900x 100mm Skoda howitzers
- 242x Schneider 105mm guns (118 wz.13 and 124 wz.29) – Buffetaut indicates 254 guns
- 38x De Bange 120mm guns (32 wz.78/09/31 and 6 wz.78/10/31) with trail from Russian 6" howitzer – Buffetaut indicates 43 guns
- 340x Schneider 155mm wz.17 French howitzers – Buffetaut indicates 340 guns too
- 27x 220 mm wz.32 heavy howitzers (Skoda)

AT artillery:
- 1200x 37mm Bofors guns

AA artillery:
- 306x 40mm Bofors guns
- 72x 75mm Bofors guns
- 84x Schneider 75mm wz.1897/25 French AA guns
- 12xSchneider 75mm wz.1918/24 French AA guns on De Dion-Bouton cars (self-propelled AA guns)
- 2xSchneider 75mm wz.1917 French AA guns

Regards,

David

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Post by The Edge » 25 Jan 2007 12:17

YAN wrote:THANKS THE EDGE, DID THEY USE THE SKODA 75mm M.15 MOUNTAIN GUN TOO?, YAN


I believe they didn't.

(Poles were some kind of "standardization freaks", so if they found some of these guns at the end of WWI, by 1930 they were probably discarded)

Problematic issues with Polish artillery are:
- 75mm Mle 1912 Schneider horse artillery guns - not on the lists, but definitely used ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_7 ... _Schneider )
- 75 mm Mle 1914 Schneider field guns - did they used them and if so, when? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_7 ... _Schneider )
- 75 mm Mle 1919 Schneider mountain gun - some sources say Poles used them

This very interesting artice ( http://info-poland.buffalo.edu/web/hist ... d_1939.htm ) explains why Poles didn't purchased AA guns 1925-35 and why they bought their first AT guns 1936.

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Post by YAN » 26 Jan 2007 14:05

Thanks again the Edge, what was the czech or skoda titile of the 220mm wz.32.

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Post by The Edge » 26 Jan 2007 15:56

YAN wrote:Thanks again the Edge, what was the czech or skoda titile of the 220mm wz.32.


22 cm těžký moždíř vz.32 (for Polish guns), or
22 cm těžký moždíř vz.28 (for Yugoslav guns)

However, Czechoslovak Army DIDN'T USED THEM! :wink: These were export-only models.

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Post by YAN » 06 Feb 2007 15:38

Thank you The Edge. Yan.

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Post by The Edge » 19 Feb 2007 15:10

YAN wrote:THANKS THE EDGE, DID THEY USE THE SKODA 75mm M.15 MOUNTAIN GUN TOO?, YAN


Not mentioned here http://www.wojsko18-39.internetdsl.pl/w ... a2kat.html ( "Second class guns" - i.e. non-standard artillery for reserve formations; of course, available in limited numbers).

Note about Polish mountain artillery - all sources are unanimous - only 24 guns 65mm caliber (French Mle 06 Puteaux). If you see Polish OOB for 1939, they had only three mountain brigades, each with one artillery battalion of two batteries (8 guns total, i.e. 3 x 8 = 24).

Accordingly, any Skoda M.15 or Schneider Mle 19 (as stated in "Wikipedia") would be surplus.

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Post by Kocur » 20 Feb 2007 08:52

David Lehmann wrote:AT artillery:
- 1200x 37mm Bofors guns


300 bought from Bofors, 900 licensed production.

David Lehmann wrote:AA artillery:
- 306x 40mm Bofors guns


Also locally produced.
Both AT and AA Bofors guns were also exported. Anegdote: I have read about two cases of Polish troops 'meeting' Polish production guns, previously sold to UK: AA in Norway, AT in North Africa.


David Lehmann wrote:- 72x 75mm Bofors guns


I have never encountered any info on 75mm Bofors AA guns in Polish service. I belive those are both Polish design and production wz. 36St and wz. 37St 75mm AA guns mistaken for Bofors (already linked http://www.1939.pl/uzbrojenie/polskie/a ... index.html ).

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Post by Kelvin » 09 Feb 2008 07:12

Hi Lehmann, your info on Polish artillery data was 01st September 1939 ?

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Post by Slavomir » 10 Feb 2008 22:04

David Lehmann wrote:Hello,

In my notes, concerning the Polish artillery, I have these numbers:

Field Artillery:
1230x Schneider 75mm wz.97 guns (also used in AT role) – Buffetaut indicates 1374 guns


The right number is 1374

242x Schneider 105mm guns (118 wz.13 and 124 wz.29) – Buffetaut indicates 254 guns


The right number is 254

38x De Bange 120mm guns (32 wz.78/09/31 and 6 wz.78/10/31) with trail from Russian 6" howitzer – Buffetaut indicates 43 guns


The number is 43

340x Schneider 155mm wz.17 French howitzers – Buffetaut indicates 340 guns too


My source says 341 :lol:

Source: The Gen. Miller's Memorandum for Marechal Rydz - Smigly on status and preparations of field artillery dated June 21st 1939 - Documents of Chief of General Staff t. 59

Note; Gen. Miller was responsible for artillery matters in General Staff.

Best regards

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Post by Slavomir » 10 Feb 2008 22:30

The Edge wrote:Note about Polish mountain artillery - all sources are unanimous - only 24 guns 65mm caliber (French Mle 06 Puteaux). If you see Polish OOB for 1939, they had only three mountain brigades, each with one artillery battalion of two batteries (8 guns total, i.e. 3 x 8 = 24)


The problem with Polish mountain brigades were ad hoc units formed after German annexation of Bohemia and creation of Slovak state.

1st Brigade (Army "Karakow") had two - 151st and 152nd arty batteries;
2nd Brigade (Army "Karpaty") had only one - 153rd battery

Only 12 of 65mm guns were used in combat

Regards

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Post by The Edge » 13 Feb 2008 09:02

Slavomir wrote: The problem with Polish mountain brigades were ad hoc units formed after German annexation of Bohemia and creation of Slovak state.

1st Brigade (Army "Karakow") had two - 151st and 152nd arty batteries;
2nd Brigade (Army "Karpaty") had only one - 153rd battery

Only 12 of 65mm guns were used in combat.


Slavomir, thanks for the great info! :D

What was the purpose of these mountain guns before 1939? (Some kind of war reserve? Armament for border units?)

How many batteries of mountain guns were in TOE for these brigades? (Fully mobilized)

Regards,

Edge

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Re: Polish artillery

Post by Slavomir » 29 Feb 2008 10:42

Hello, Edge

I couldn't find any assignment for those guns before 1939. It looks that those. alongside some other types of post-Russian, Austrian guns were just stocked in wherehouses.

In June 1939, when the German occupation of Bohemia and Moravia forced Polish General Staff to organize Karpaty Army. With only 2 mountain brigades without artillery those were not to stop any advance for too long. So the decision came to organize 3 batteries (4 guns each). The reason why those obsolete guns were used is first, there were none other types available, second, existing stocks of ammunition for them (app. 20,000)

Some of the rest were to be orgaznized into 2-guns artillery platoons for Obrona Narodowa (Home Defense) battalions. From what I know it was too late and none of them was mobilized.

As I said, the mountain brigades were ad-hoc formations and called "mountain" just by location they were created as those hadn't had any mountain training, equipment (except those oldies 65mm guns :lol: ) So, from what I know, the General Staff prepared the OOB for mountain brigades for unification of those units, but it was too late to be implemented.

As a result each brigade entered the war with different organizations with very limited arty support. From what I know only 1st and 2nd Brigades received arty batteries. Those batteries were mobilized by 6th Light Artillery Regiment from Cracow.

I will check my sources for any further info about arty support for mountain brigades. I will post it ASAP.

Regards

Slawomir

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