Polish artillery

Discussions on all aspects of Poland during the Second Polish Republic and the Second World War. Hosted by Peter K
User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 835
Joined: 29 Sep 2009 13:35
Location: Nanking

Re: Polish artillery

Post by YC Chen » 01 Mar 2013 11:52

Hello,
Thank you all for your kind replies. I'll copy some pictures from my manuals later.
Here is a rough sketch of the alleged "Polish manufacturer's marking" on those shells which said to be made in Poland. Is this anything Polish? Which maufacturer does it represent?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

YAN
Member
Posts: 1113
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 15:11
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Polish artillery

Post by YAN » 01 Mar 2013 12:58

The 120mm Wz.1878/09/31 and 120mm Wz.1878/10/31 were built on two chassis;

152mm M1909 Schneider Howitzer
152mm M1910 Putilov/Schneider Howitzer

Now look at the data below (I got the data from a Bulgarian WW1 site):

152mm M1909 Schneider Howitzer = Weight 2.275 kg
152mm M1910 Putilov/Schneider Howitzer = Weight 2.162 kg

There is a difference in weight, so would these guns have different stats?
I have tried to find data on these guns, but they list them both as the same weapon, but surly there would be a difference because of the different weights.

Yan.

gebhk
Member
Posts: 396
Joined: 25 Feb 2013 20:23

Re: Polish artillery

Post by gebhk » 05 Mar 2013 08:28

Dear Yan

Re 105s - I'll check the stats. As far as I am aware only one 105 was 'motorised' experimentally with a dolly with pneumatic wheels and incidentally not pulled by a C4P but by a Vickers-Armstrong LAT. There may have been the odd experiments that have passed me by (or I've forgotten - happens at my age :oops: ) and if so I'd be very interested to see the evidence - with reflection it would be more than likely that such experimentation was taking place as an extensive programme of motorisation of the 'heavy' artillery was envisaged as part of the 1936 modernisation plan. That being said doubt that anyone considered the C4P as traction for these as by 1938/9 their inadequacies had been realised and they were to be replaced with Unic tractors purchased from France. One thing we can be fairly certain of is that apart from the 220mm mortars, only the following weapons went to war on rubber wheels: 12 75mm wz 97s, 4 100mm howitzers and 12 120mm guns.

Re 120s: Konstankiewicz makes the point that the main difference between the 1878/09/31 and 1878/10/31 was the weight of the undercarriage. The data is almost certainly for the '09' as I don't think there is any extant information on the '10'. Even the contemporaneous instructions (of 1938) give stats for the 09 with the rider that the 10 differs from it in the layout of the recoil mechanism and the construction of the barrel, undercarriage (its lighter) and other odds and sods including the limber.

YC Chen - any objections to me putting your pic on another website and posting it to a few of my friends?

Best wishes
Krzysztof

YAN
Member
Posts: 1113
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 15:11
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Polish artillery

Post by YAN » 05 Mar 2013 10:33

Many thanks for your time and help Krzysztof.
Yan.

User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 835
Joined: 29 Sep 2009 13:35
Location: Nanking

Re: Polish artillery

Post by YC Chen » 05 Mar 2013 14:47

gebhk wrote:
YC Chen - any objections to me putting your pic on another website and posting it to a few of my friends?

Best wishes
Krzysztof
You mean the blurry sketch of the manufacturer's marking? Of course you can share it if you think it will be of any use. Also this weekend I'll copy one or two pictures of shells claimed to be Polish from my old manuals. Maybe I'll put watermarks on it but feel free to share any pictures I posted on this forum.

Njorl
Member
Posts: 220
Joined: 17 Jul 2007 14:03
Location: Poland

Re: Polish artillery

Post by Njorl » 05 Mar 2013 16:47

The "blurry sketch of the manufacturer's marking" looks like ST for Starachowice.

Image

Image

Regards
MJU

gebhk
Member
Posts: 396
Joined: 25 Feb 2013 20:23

Re: Polish artillery

Post by gebhk » 06 Mar 2013 04:27

Yan - some differences found in contemporaneous 'user manuals'

105 gun wz 13

Barrel length: 2987
Shell weights:
Schrapnel wz 16: 16985
Grenade wz 14: 15500
Tracer wz 16: 16815
Max range: 12,000 (with '0' charge and Schrapnel wz 16)
Muzzle velocity depends on charge
ROF: 8 rpm

105 gun wz 29

Max range: 15500
ROF = 6 rpm
Shell weight:
Grenade wz 14: 15500
Grenade wz 31: 15440

Hope that helps
Krzysztof

YAN
Member
Posts: 1113
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 15:11
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Polish artillery

Post by YAN » 06 Mar 2013 10:49

Thank you Krzysztof I will amend my 105 data; are these the two Russian Guns used to provide the carriage for the 120mm Wz.1878/09/31 & Wz.1878/10/31.

http://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgar ... 909_Hb.htm

http://www.bulgarianartillery.it/Bulgar ... 910_Hb.htm

If so, I might be able to discover the weight difference of both Guns, if I knew the barrel weight of the 120mm mle 1897 I will be able to start, so I will have a search around.

Going back to motorisation; the Polish Army had around 350 x Wz.36 AA Guns (Bofors m/32), I have read that these were all towed by C2P Tractors. These light AA Guns were employed in Infantry Divisions.
These heavier AA Guns were not used in Infantry Divisions, but they may have been issued at Army Level.
75mm Wz.14 Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft Gun: about twelve in service
75mm Wz.1922/24 Anti-Aircraft Gun: around 94 in service
75mm Wz.36/37 Anti-Aircraft Gun: only 52 in service

The info available for both the 75mm Wz.14 and 75mm Wz.1922/24 is scarce so I may have to look at the French data for any gaps in my figures;

French/Schneider mle 13/34 mounted on a Fiat 6211 Truck = 75mm Wz.14
French/Schneider mle ?, towed by a Brak Truck = 75mm Wz.1922/24

I have read that the 75mm Wz.1922/24 was only used to defend Military bases and coastal defences.
The 75mm Wz.14 was placed on a truck so it was pretty mobile.

Yan.

Njorl
Member
Posts: 220
Joined: 17 Jul 2007 14:03
Location: Poland

Re: Polish artillery

Post by Njorl » 06 Mar 2013 20:34

Yan, there were 2 versions of licence-made 40mm Bofors: 'regular' wz. 36 on 4-wheeled platform and so-called 'half-static' wz. 38 with 2-wheeled tranposrt bogey that was dismantled before the gun was set up for firing. Platoons of wz. 38s were employed as AA defence of important locations like military manufacturing plants, airfields etc. and in most cases were not towed by C2P, but eg. by PF 621 (Polski Fiat 621) lorries. You can see the difference between those 2 versions on photos linked in the beginning of this thread.

See this article for more details on number of wz. 36 and wz. 38 in Poland, although it's in Polish only. The number of Bofors used during 1939 campaign adds up to 350.
75mm Wz.14 Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft Gun: about twelve in service
12 self-propelled pieces of 75 mm wz. 18/24 were in 1 DAPlotSam (1 Dywizjon Armat Przeciwlotniczych Samochodowy): 4 on chasis of Polski Fiat 621L Tur 2,5 ton lorry, 8 on De Dion-Bouton mod. 1913.

Regards
MJU

YAN
Member
Posts: 1113
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 15:11
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Polish artillery

Post by YAN » 07 Mar 2013 11:03

Thank you for the links and data MJU.

I will pick over that link tonight, but I am sure that I seen some numbers for both guns on another forum;
154 x Wz.36
196 x Wz.38
Total = 350

I suppose the stats for the two guns are the same, except for the weight.


Yan.

User avatar
YC Chen
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 835
Joined: 29 Sep 2009 13:35
Location: Nanking

Re: Polish artillery

Post by YC Chen » 10 Mar 2013 12:40

Hello all,

Here are some pictures of ammunitions claimed to be made in Poland from my Chinese manual. These are ammunitions for French Mle 1897 field gun, and ammunitions and fuse for Bofors 40mm AA gun.

Hope they are of interest to you.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Pibwl1
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 06 Jun 2013 16:55

Re: Polish artillery

Post by Pibwl1 » 06 Jun 2013 20:22

YAN wrote: If so, I might be able to discover the weight difference of both Guns, if I knew the barrel weight of the 120mm mle 1897 I will be able to start, so I will have a search around.
Here you are: 1280 kg plus 35-kg breech (from original Polish manual)
YAN wrote: These heavier AA Guns were not used in Infantry Divisions, but they may have been issued at Army Level.
75mm Wz.14 Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft Gun: about twelve in service
75mm Wz.1922/24 Anti-Aircraft Gun: around 94 in service
75mm Wz.36/37 Anti-Aircraft Gun: only 52 in service
There were only 14 guns wz.22/24 - all used in two Naval AA Artillery Detachments, in a coastal defence, on stationary pedestal mounts (it was a French naval gun).

There were also 84 of obsolete wz.1897/25 guns, on semi-static mounts, with limited arc of fire, plus 2 a bit more modern trailer-mounted wz.17 guns (all French origin, basing upon Mle.1897).

Michal

http://derela.republika.pl

YAN
Member
Posts: 1113
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 15:11
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Polish artillery

Post by YAN » 11 Jun 2013 12:37

Thank you Michal, sorry I didn’t get back to you earlier.

P.S. do you know how many Wz. 36 & Wz. 38 40mm AA Guns the Polish Army had available in 1939? I have a total of 350 for both models but no single number for both versions.

Regards Ian.

Pibwl1
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 06 Jun 2013 16:55

Re: Polish artillery

Post by Pibwl1 » 11 Jun 2013 23:01

YAN wrote: P.S. do you know how many Wz. 36 & Wz. 38 40mm AA Guns the Polish Army had available in 1939?
According to Konstankiewicz's book, 158 wz.36 and 164 wz.38. But his figures are sometimes too low - he doesn't seem to count reserve gun (I don't know, if there were any in this case).
In the campaign there were at least eight Bofors guns more, found in wagons in Gdynia port, scheduled for export.

Michal

Carl Schwamberger
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 6740
Joined: 02 Sep 2006 20:31
Location: USA

Re: Polish artillery

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 12 Jun 2013 02:22

YC Chen wrote:Hello all,

Here are some pictures of ammunitions claimed to be made in Poland from my Chinese manual. These are ammunitions for French Mle 1897 field gun, and ammunitions and fuse for Bofors 40mm AA gun.

Hope they are of interest to you.
Yes those were of interest. Do you have any other items like this?

Return to “Poland 1919-1945”