Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

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thorwald77
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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#181

Post by thorwald77 » 16 Oct 2018, 22:51

It is my understanding that ethnic Polish citizens of the states of the former Soviet Union who can prove that their parents or grandparents were citizens of Poland from 1918-39 are not allowed to claim Polish citizenship. The government in Warsaw today no longer claims this territory and does not want an influx of ethnic Polish refugees. Polonia is not a practical reality for ethnic Polish citizens of the states of the former Soviet Union.

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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#182

Post by Futurist » 17 Oct 2018, 01:44

thorwald77 wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 22:51
It is my understanding that ethnic Polish citizens of the states of the former Soviet Union who can prove that their parents or grandparents were citizens of Poland from 1918-39 are not allowed to claim Polish citizenship. The government in Warsaw today no longer claims this territory and does not want an influx of ethnic Polish refugees. Polonia is not a practical reality for ethnic Polish citizens of the states of the former Soviet Union.
This is strange considering that Poland could use more people right now due to its low total fertility rate.


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thorwald77
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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#183

Post by thorwald77 » 17 Oct 2018, 01:52

x
Last edited by thorwald77 on 17 Oct 2018, 01:54, edited 1 time in total.

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thorwald77
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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#184

Post by thorwald77 » 17 Oct 2018, 01:53

I heard this from a Polish friend in Brooklyn NY, I am not sure. He told me people from the East work in Poland illegally. He is older and can read and speak Polish, his kids read the Russian newspaper in New York. They are from Hrodna/Goradno. He says that the Roman Catholic church is allowed now since 1991

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wm
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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#185

Post by wm » 17 Oct 2018, 14:28

thorwald77 wrote:
16 Oct 2018, 22:51
It is my understanding that ethnic Polish citizens of the states of the former Soviet Union who can prove that their parents or grandparents were citizens of Poland from 1918-39 are not allowed to claim Polish citizenship. The government in Warsaw today no longer claims this territory and does not want an influx of ethnic Polish refugees. Polonia is not a practical reality for ethnic Polish citizens of the states of the former Soviet Union.
That's not really true. It's not hard to become a citizen - basically, you have to prove you are part of the culture.
The problem is those people are mostly poor and live in poor countries so they simply can't afford to relocate.
A young person could do it because he needs almost nothing to start a new life, but in the case of an extended family, it's simply not doable.
Poland could use more people certainly but can't afford to pay for them, i.e. give them money and homes.

To resolve the really serious labor shortages millions of Ukrainians are "imported" every year.
Right now a major scare has been triggered, that the Germans are going to "steal" "our" Ukrainians by offering them better deals.

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thorwald77
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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#186

Post by thorwald77 » 17 Oct 2018, 16:51

The problem is those people are mostly poor and live in poor countries so they simply can't afford to relocate.
Thanks, for your reply. So "Polonia" is a fantasy in the minds of Wikipedia editors living outside of Poland. In the real world the reality is Ile masz pieniędzy?

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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#187

Post by wm » 17 Oct 2018, 20:17

Polonia is mostly the millions of Poles who emigrated to the US and other western countries - because of poverty (pre-ww2) or because of communism (post-ww2). Generally, today they aren't poor and have the means to return, but have no reason to do that.

Ethnic Polish citizens of the states of the former Soviet Union aren't emigrants - they always lived there, on the former Polish territories annexed in 1921 and 1939, or were deported deep into the USSR in 1939/1940 from Poland and stayed there.
They are poor because of communism and what happened later. They live in government-owned homes and have no savings.

Although there are only hundreds of thousands of them Poland can't afford to help them. No country, maybe except Germany, helps in such circumstances.

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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#188

Post by Futurist » 17 Oct 2018, 23:10

wm wrote:
17 Oct 2018, 20:17
Polonia is mostly the millions of Poles who emigrated to the US and other western countries - because of poverty (pre-ww2) or because of communism (post-ww2). Generally, today they aren't poor and have the means to return, but have no reason to do that.

Ethnic Polish citizens of the states of the former Soviet Union aren't emigrants - they always lived there, on the former Polish territories annexed in 1921 and 1939, or were deported deep into the USSR in 1939/1940 from Poland and stayed there.
They are poor because of communism and what happened later. They live in government-owned homes and have no savings.

Although there are only hundreds of thousands of them Poland can't afford to help them. No country, maybe except Germany, helps in such circumstances.
Does Poland not have enough money to help them out if they agree to move to Poland?

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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#189

Post by wm » 18 Oct 2018, 01:04

Those people don't live in Moscow or St. Petersburg. They live in places where a job can't be found, in government-owned homes, with no savings worth mentioning. They literally own nothing of value. So in their case, enough money is lots of money which they will never be able to repay. Only well educated young people can start their lives from nothing, but not families.
Considering that Poland is very different than their own countries, it's basically a foreign country for them, it's not even worth it.

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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#190

Post by thorwald77 » 18 Oct 2018, 03:15

If Poland had not had to live through the years 1939-45, Poland would be today looking at the demographics of a country of 66 million", rather than 38 million, and would warrant a much higher quota of votes in the EU, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, the prime minister, told Polish radio.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... u.politics

Kaczynski's difference of 28 million people includes the former territories in the east. Kaczynski could open the borders and increase his population ASAP by allowing the ethnic Poles in the former Soviet Union to come to Poland. Polonia would then be a reality.

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thorwald77
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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#191

Post by thorwald77 » 18 Oct 2018, 03:19

Although there are only hundreds of thousands of them Poland can't afford to help them. No country, maybe except Germany, helps in such circumstances.
Poland could afford to help them but they are too cheap, not like the Germans

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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#192

Post by wm » 18 Oct 2018, 10:34

Germany is seven times wealthier than Poland.
In Poland even today almost two million people live in abject poverty.

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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#193

Post by thorwald77 » 18 Oct 2018, 14:38

Thats real sad, the people in Poland are so cheap, Polonia is just a fantasy

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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#194

Post by henryk » 18 Oct 2018, 20:45

http://www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/33834 ... rom-Russia
More ethnic Poles seeking repatriation from Russia
Polish Radio 06.12.2017 08:30

A growing number of ethnic Poles living in the remote Russian region of Siberia are interested in moving to the country from which their family hails, Polish Radio has reported.

According to an expatriate Polish organisation called the Congress of Poles in Russia, the increased interest in relocating to Poland is chiefly due to new repatriation regulations that lawmakers in Warsaw passed earlier this year.

The Polish government has declared it is ready to help all ethnic Poles interested in repatriating from countries beyond Poland’s eastern border.

The repatriation programme primarily covers descendants of Polish people who were deported to the former Soviet Union decades ago, Henryk Kowalczyk, a senior government official in Warsaw, has said.

Government help for repatriates includes financial support and housing assistance, according to Kowalczyk, who heads the Government Standing Committee.

Repatriate status is available to people who do not have Polish citizenship, but feel Polish and can prove they were deported from Poland against their will or that their parents, grandparents or great-grandparents were deported decades ago, according to Polish Radio’s IAR news agency.

(gs/pk)
Source: IAR

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thorwald77
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Re: Polish claims on Wilno/Vilnius

#195

Post by thorwald77 » 18 Oct 2018, 21:51

Henryk, this only covers Poles who were deported from Poland against their will in the Stalin era living in Russia today. There were 47,000 Poles in Russia according to census data. It does not cover the 650,000 self identified Poles in the former territories of the 2nd Republic living in the Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania according to the most recent census data. I say self identified Poles because the Western Ukraine today has many Bandara-UPA supporters. Henryk your post is misleading and deceptive

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