Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

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Ironmachine
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Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

#1

Post by Ironmachine » 08 Oct 2009, 17:57

http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/029 ... odlin.html
shows that the Polish Modlin Army had an independent "heavy" infantry battalion under its command, which was attached to the 20th Infantry Division.
Anybody knows the composition and weaponry of this battalion?

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Re: Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

#2

Post by phylo_roadking » 08 Oct 2009, 19:50

I-M...it wasn't the infantry battalion that used the 37mm Armata ppanc. wz. 36 anti-tank guns in the Mlawa Line bunkers was it???


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Re: Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

#3

Post by Ironmachine » 08 Oct 2009, 21:17

I don't know, phylo, that's why I ask...:wink:
Do you know how many guns were available at the Mlawa fight? My knowledge of the Polish Army in 1939 is not so great... but according to the same site a regular Polish infantry division had an anti-tank company with 9 x 37mm anti-tank guns in each infantry regiment. Maybe these were the guns used in the Mlawa Line bunkers.
On the other hand, it also says that on paper the divisions had an independent anti-tank company with 12 x 37mm anti-tank guns, but that most of the divisions did not really had such company... I don't know what was the situation in the 20th Infantry Division. I doubt that, with such limited availability of anti-tank guns, an independent infantry battalion would have been equipped with many (or any) of them, but I don't know.

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Re: Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

#4

Post by phylo_roadking » 08 Oct 2009, 21:36

No, this is the only source I came across at the time that ever even gave a bunker count - IF you can get your head around the excreble automatic translation! :lol:

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... %26hl%3Den

...but doesn't say HOW many had AT guns...I think! 8O

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Re: Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

#5

Post by phylo_roadking » 08 Oct 2009, 22:32

Ah!
"...the Polish Modlin Army had an independent "heavy" infantry battalion under its command..."

Would THAT possibly be the "Narew Independent Operational Group"???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mlawa

I can't find my way back to it now, but IIRC one of the Polish-language sites I came across during the Stuka thread a while back that diverted onto the Battle of Mlawa hinted that SGO Narew WAS in the line of "heavy" bunkers 8O ....which would mean they had heavy weapons? :wink:

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Re: Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

#6

Post by Ironmachine » 09 Oct 2009, 08:19

Perhaps I am not understanding correctly what you are trying to say, but the Narew Operational Group was not a battalion; it was a corps-sized unit. In fact it had two infantry divisions and two cavalry brigades, so it was about the same size as the Modlin Army. And AFAIK the Narew Operational Group was not involved in the battle of Mlawa.

The same site had a different entry for the Narew Operational Group (http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/029 ... narew.html) and there is no "heavy" infantry battalion shown. The unit is question is clearly presented with the Modlin Army, and presented as attached to the 20th Infantry Division. In fact, it is the only such unit (i.e., represented with the "heavy infantry" symbol) shown in the whole Polish Army on 1 September 1939.

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Re: Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

#7

Post by Njorl » 09 Oct 2009, 11:30

Ironmachine wrote:Anybody knows the composition and weaponry of this battalion?
I have no idea what this battalion really was. It could be so called 'battalion of heavy and support weapons', ie. heavy MGs and 81 mm mortars. Since I have a monograph of Armia "Modlin" I can check this information.

IIRC the bunkers on Mława line were equipped in HMGs only.

Regards,
MJU

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Re: Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

#8

Post by Ironmachine » 09 Oct 2009, 13:31

Njorl, mortars and machine-guns was what i first think of when I saw this unit (there were similar units in the Spanish Army at the time), but I want to be sure. What puzzled me more was that this seemed to be a unique unit in the Polish army.
I would greatly appreciate that you check your sources for me, thanks.
I have found the name "1 ckm" for this unit (or so I think). It is an abbreviation, I think, but perhaps you can make some sense of it.
Again, thanks for your help.

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Re: Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

#9

Post by PawelWozniak » 09 Oct 2009, 14:03

You were probably looking for details regarding 1. samodzielny batalion ckm (1st independent heavy machine guns battallion) under commanf of mjr (major) Wacław Kuczaj-Kuczajowski. There were 7 of them according to OoB in September 1939. It should consist of 3 heavy machine guns companies, 1 infantry company, pioneer and signal platoons, and anti-tank platoon using: 9 mg (Browning wz. 28), 36 hmg (Browning wz. 30), 3 46 mm mortars (wz. 36), 3 7,92 mm anti-tank rifles(kbUr wz. 35), 6 81 mm mortars (wz. 28) and 2 (or 3 according to different source) 37 mm Bofors (wz. 36) anti-tank guns.

See a nice link (unfortunately in Polish with photos with almost each
Hope it can help you.

the following links are in Polish but at least you can see pictures:

light machine gun wz. 28: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karabin_ma ... g_wz._1928
heavy machine gun wz. 30: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karabin_maszynowy_wz._30
kbUr wz. 35: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karabin_pr ... rny_wz._35
46 mm mortar: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granatnik_wz._1936
81 mm mortar: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo%C5%BAdz ... 1anti-tank gun wz. 36: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armata_prz ... rna_wz._36

existing fortification in the area of Mława:
http://www.schrony1939.fortyfikacje.pl/mlawa.htm

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Re: Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

#10

Post by Ironmachine » 09 Oct 2009, 18:42

Many thanks, Pawel. That was exactly what I was looking for.
Can you please confirm that the 1st independent heavy machine guns battallion was under Modlin Army command and attached to the 20th Infantry Division at the start of September 1939? And can you tell me to which higher command were assigned the other 6 such battalions?
Thanks again.

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Re: Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

#11

Post by Njorl » 11 Oct 2009, 20:20

According to T. Jurga, Wł. Karbowski Armia "Modlin" 1939, Warszawa 1987, pp. 45-46 the 20 DP (ie. ID) was strenghted with several battalion and company-size units, including the 1 samodzielny batalion ckm. The battalion and 2nd battalion of 80 pp (infantry regiment) occupied Kołakowo position. The information provided above depicts the situation as of August 31st.

According to brief internet search (result) other independent HMG and accompanying weapon battalions (samodzielny batalion ckm i broni towarzyszącej) were assigned to:
2 samodzielny batalion ckm i br. tow. - is said to take part in defense of Praga - a quarter of Warszawa
3 samodzielny baon ckm - SGO "Polesie", although at first it was meant for Army "Łódź" (Samodzielna Grupa Operacyjna ie. Independent Operational Group, GOs were corps-sized)
4 batalion ckm i broni towarzyszących - Army "Kraków"
5 samodzielny batalion ckm - Army "Poznań"
6 batalion ckm - Army "Pomorze"
7 batalion ckm - Army "Łódź", GO "Piotrków"

Hope this helps.

MJU

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Re: Polish "heavy" infantry battalion, Modlin Army

#12

Post by Ironmachine » 11 Oct 2009, 23:23

Yes, this is of much help. Thank you.

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