Hundreds or thousands of primitive nukes can still do A LOT OF damage, no?
BTW, when did nuclear annihilation actually become a thing?
Poland came close to making a concession over Danzig
Re: Poland came close to making a concession over Danzig
They had 50 in 1948, and 1000 in 1953.
Re: Poland came close to making a concession over Danzig
Hi Michael - a quick question on the underlinemichael mills wrote: ↑16 Oct 2016, 11:20Poland had no choice?In 1939 Poland didn't have any choice.
Of course Poland had a choice. It could have chosen not to make an enemy by declining the British offer of a military alliance directed against that country.
As of the date of the first British offer of an alliance, made on 20 March 1939, Germany had made no threats to Poland whatsoever. It had not made any demands on Poland, only requests in the context of a package deal to resolve all outstanding points of conflict between the two countries.
Poland could have chosen to follow the same route as Romania, which was offered the same guarantee by Britain as had been offered to Poland. Romania chose to decline the British offer and instead retain its friendly relations with Germany, which had culminated in the German-Romanian economic agreement only a few days before. If Poland had followed the same course as Romania it would not have been invaded by Germany.
The wisest course that Poland could have followed would have been to agree to the German proposals in regard to Danzig, which involved Danzig's rejoining Germany, with Poland's economic interest in the city being maintained through a free port in the Danzig harbour. Czechoslovakia had had customs-free access to the sea through a free port in the Hamburg harbour, and the same arrangement could have existed in Danzig.
Furthermore, when Germany compelled Lithuania to return the Memelland, it allowed Lithuania to retain a free port in Memel harbour, thereby preserving its access to seaborne trade. The same arrangement could have applied to a Danzig reunited with Germany.
Hitler had always been friendly to Poland, having reversed the hostile attitude to that country of his Weimar predecessors, and his aim was to have it as an ally against the Soviet Union, not to destroy it. His decision to invade it was solely a result of Poland's having adopted a violently hostile attitude toward Germany after receiving the British offer of an alliance, which lulled the Polish leaders into the mistaken belief that in alliance with Britain and France they could wage a successful war against Germany and seize the territories east of the Oder-Neisse Line.
a) when did Romania 'decline' the British guarantee ?
b) could you please provide citation ?
Per my understanding -- Britain provided guarantees to - Greece / Poland / Romania -- and all 3 countries accepted it
Re: Poland came close to making a concession over Danzig
Actually, it was the other way around. The Poles accepted the guarantee (after negotiation with the British), and then it was announced so, in Warsaw, it wasn't any surprise at all.
A few days earlier the Germans were, more or less, aware of such a possibility, too.
A few days earlier the Germans were, more or less, aware of such a possibility, too.
Re: Poland came close to making a concession over Danzig
By 1953, the United States decided nuclear war was not practical. During the Korean War, Chinese Communist troops joined the conflict. General MacArthur considered using atomic bombs. When President Truman heard this he relieved MacArthur of command. As the Cold War continued, both sides convinced the other that Mutually Assured Destruction would be the price to pay. That threat still exists. All countries with nuclear weapon stockpiles smaller than the U.S., Russia and China would be in grave danger from one or all three if they used one.
Re: Poland came close to making a concession over Danzig
1 Germany did not want Danzig, it wanted much morejabhatta wrote: ↑23 Oct 2023, 01:22Hi Michael - a quick question on the underlinemichael mills wrote: ↑16 Oct 2016, 11:20Poland had no choice?In 1939 Poland didn't have any choice.
Of course Poland had a choice. It could have chosen not to make an enemy by declining the British offer of a military alliance directed against that country.
As of the date of the first British offer of an alliance, made on 20 March 1939, Germany had made no threats to Poland whatsoever. It had not made any demands on Poland, only requests in the context of a package deal to resolve all outstanding points of conflict between the two countries.
Poland could have chosen to follow the same route as Romania, which was offered the same guarantee by Britain as had been offered to Poland. Romania chose to decline the British offer and instead retain its friendly relations with Germany, which had culminated in the German-Romanian economic agreement only a few days before. If Poland had followed the same course as Romania it would not have been invaded by Germany.
The wisest course that Poland could have followed would have been to agree to the German proposals in regard to Danzig, which involved Danzig's rejoining Germany, with Poland's economic interest in the city being maintained through a free port in the Danzig harbour. Czechoslovakia had had customs-free access to the sea through a free port in the Hamburg harbour, and the same arrangement could have existed in Danzig.
Furthermore, when Germany compelled Lithuania to return the Memelland, it allowed Lithuania to retain a free port in Memel harbour, thereby preserving its access to seaborne trade. The same arrangement could have applied to a Danzig reunited with Germany.
Hitler had always been friendly to Poland, having reversed the hostile attitude to that country of his Weimar predecessors, and his aim was to have it as an ally against the Soviet Union, not to destroy it. His decision to invade it was solely a result of Poland's having adopted a violently hostile attitude toward Germany after receiving the British offer of an alliance, which lulled the Polish leaders into the mistaken belief that in alliance with Britain and France they could wage a successful war against Germany and seize the territories east of the Oder-Neisse Line.
a) when did Romania 'decline' the British guarantee ?
b) could you please provide citation ?
Per my understanding -- Britain provided guarantees to - Greece / Poland / Romania -- and all 3 countries accepted it
2 Greece,Poland and Romania accepted British guarantees,but did not attach any importance on it,because all Britain could do ( and did ) was to send 2 divisions,after the fighting was over .
Halifax said that neither the Polish nor Romanian government was under any illusion that they might receive concrete help from Great Britain .
Source : Lord Birkenhead ,Halifax,The Life of Lord Halifax, London .1965, p 347 .
Cited by Cienciala in Poland in British and French Policy note 86 .
These guarantees were only words with as meaning to prevent a German/Italian attack on these countries, not to help these countries if they were attacked .