Pursuit Brigade in Defense of Warsaw 1939

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mirekw
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Pursuit Brigade in Defense of Warsaw 1939

Post by mirekw » 21 Jul 2017 08:32

July 18, 2017, I have published in Polish, a specialized historical magazine "Technika Wojskowa Historia/Military History Technique" no. 4/2017 (pp. 4-14) text - synthesis under the title "Pursuit Brigade in Defense of Warsaw". There are 20 black and white photos of both PZL P.11 fighters and Luftwaffe aircraft.


Table of Contents

Preparing the Polish Side for the Capital Defense Organization

Creation of the Pursuit Brigade

On the Road Towards War

The Pursuit Brigade in defense of Warsaw

Summary


At the end of the text I placed a table with all confirmed victories of the Polish fighters (date, type, winner or winners, degree of damage, air unit, all damage 60-100%). Next to this are given the Luftwaffe aircraft suffered only damage <60%

The five fighter squadrons have reportedly claimed to shot down:
III / 1 Dyon - 12 and IV / 1 Dyon - 25 LW's planes. Six more from 7 to 17 September.

Total Poles reportedly shot down 43 planes, five probably and five damaged, in general 126 German planes shot down, 10 probable and 14 damaged by all Polish fighters in September 1939.

According to Luftwaffe documentation, the real successes of Poles were worse. In the battles with the Brigade, the Germans lost 12 total destroyed machines (over 12, three more are possible). In addition, a few more suffered <60% damage and were repaired. A few additionally German airmen in damaged machines died or were injured.

Five Luftwaffe machines (reconnaissance aircraft, flying one by one, low and rather slow) were definitely destroyed after leaving the Warsaw junction. In total Polish fighters had destroyed 17-20 LW's planes between 1 and 17 September (damage over 60-100 %)

The material is a very large extension of the text that appeared in "Defense of the active anti-aircraft active Warsaw in 1939", which appeared in: "Wojsk technika Historia/Military Technology History" No. 1/2015. The latter described mainly anti-aircraft artillery operations over Warsaw with a small part in the combat activity of Polish aviation.

Four years earlier, I also published the text on land battles titled " "Defense of Warsaw in September 1939" in "Polygon" no. 4/2013.
The last text is final in the series of fights for Warsaw in September 1939

Regards,
mw

PS

1. Mirosław Wawrzyński, „Brygada Pościgowa w obronie Warszawy”. [w:] „Technika Wojskowa Historia. Numer Specjalny” nr 4/2017 (ss. 4-14)
http://www.magnum-x.pl/sklep/technik...nr-spec-4-2017


2. Mirosław Wawrzyński, „Obrona przeciwlotnicza czynna Warszawy w 1939 roku”, [w:] „Wojsko i Technika Historia” 1/2015.
http://zbiam.pl/portfolio/obrona-prz...y-w-1939-roku/


3. Mirosław Wawrzyński, "Obrona Warszawy we wrześniu 1939 roku”, [w:] „Poligon” nr 4/2013.
http://www.magnum-x.pl/artykul/obron...eniu-1939-roku

Stephan
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Re: Pursuit Brigade in Defense of Warsaw 1939

Post by Stephan » 26 Aug 2017 20:06

When you write worse, you mean lesser, or less successfull... So according to germans, the totale should be cut down rougly by half?

Now, to be fair, this is very common. The real losses are almost always lower then the opponents thinks. Even if they try to count only confirmed shooting. The only way to diminish the Happy Rates is to use automatic photo cameras, and not even this is reliable. Some heavy smoking planes manage to land. And some non smoking escaping planes ARE destroyed crashing later on.

Stephan
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Re: Pursuit Brigade in Defense of Warsaw 1939

Post by Stephan » 27 Aug 2017 08:58

mirekw wrote: Total Poles reportedly shot down 43 planes, five probably and five damaged, in general 126 German planes shot down, 10 probable and 14 damaged by all Polish fighters in September 1939.

According to Luftwaffe documentation, the real successes of Poles were worse. In the battles with the Brigade, the Germans lost 12 total destroyed machines (over 12, three more are possible). In addition, a few more suffered <60% damage and were repaired. A few additionally German airmen in damaged machines died or were injured.

u
This is peculiar. In their own count, they must know if the planes were shot down / destroyed / lost, or not. Did they land or did they not??
Were they repaired or were they beyond reparation? So 12 or 15?

Poles couldnt know for sure the exact german losses, but the germans knew per definition. Or?

Germans had usually good statistics. What was published in newspapers could be for propaganda, ie usually downsized numbers. But the internal professional annotations were usually good and as correct as far as they could manage.


Also, another comment. Germans were good at repairs, better than most others.
So I can imagine situations, where the polish pilot wrote: I saw clearly bullets hit him, he flew away smoking with clear difficulties to hold up the plane. Almost surely destruction, he must have crashed a couple of minutes later, or at worst, trying to land.

But if the plane managed to land - it may have been a fairly easy reparation - for the well organized german mechanics, with good access to reserve parts.
In a situation with less good ground crew, the same damages would be registered: beyond reparation, was cannibalized for reserves to other planes. And thus - de jure a destroyed plane.
While in the actual statistic it was noted as minor damages; because the ground crew repaired in two days.


Just a theory, but I believe its essentially correct.

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wm
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Re: Pursuit Brigade in Defense of Warsaw 1939

Post by wm » 19 Sep 2017 22:29

He wrote "in battles with the Brigade", the planes were shot down and their pilots killed - there are no doubts about it, we simply don't know who did it.

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