Was there ever a realistic chance for the West Ukrainian People's Republic to survive?

[wm]

All Jewish property (except communal and illegally confiscated by the communists) is considered to be abandoned under the doctrine of adverse possession.
If the owner or the rightful heirs didn't take any action earlier, even if symbolic they have no right to claim the property today.

The people from the Polish Western Borderlands were compensated with former German properties, except capitalists and landowners who obviously didn't deserve anything. That "anti-capitalist" rule is still valid today.

[Net_Skater]

I have no idea what it is about ...

[Futurist]

I have no idea what it is about ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Ukra ... s_Republic

[Futurist]

Hey wm,

Out of curiosity--where exactly in eastern Galicia did much of the Polish elite live?

[Eugen Pinak]

Hey wm,

Out of curiosity--where exactly in eastern Galicia did much of the Polish elite live?

Lwow-Lviv. Poles in Eastern Galicia were usually town dwellers.

[Futurist]

Hey wm,

Out of curiosity--where exactly in eastern Galicia did much of the Polish elite live?

Lwow-Lviv. Poles in Eastern Galicia were usually town dwellers.

What about other cities such as Ternopil?

[Eugen Pinak]

Hey wm,

Out of curiosity--where exactly in eastern Galicia did much of the Polish elite live?

Lwow-Lviv. Poles in Eastern Galicia were usually town dwellers.

What about other cities such as Ternopil?

According to 1931 Polish census, population of Ternopil was divided as follows: Poles = 41%, Jews = 39,2%, Ukrainians = 19,2%, Russians = 0,02%.
Before 1918 there were also Germans (mostly officers and officials).

[Futurist]

Hey wm,

Out of curiosity--where exactly in eastern Galicia did much of the Polish elite live?

Lwow-Lviv. Poles in Eastern Galicia were usually town dwellers.

What about other cities such as Ternopil?

According to 1931 Polish census, population of Ternopil was divided as follows: Poles = 41%, Jews = 39,2%, Ukrainians = 19,2%, Russians = 0,02%.
Before 1918 there were also Germans (mostly officers and officials).

So, also very Pole-heavy.

[Futurist]

Hi, the USA does not seem to have had any major differences on Galicia with the British. Prime Minister Lloyd George did not support any extension of Polish frontiers beyond an ethnic line. When discussing a possible boundary between east and west Galicia he favoured what was known as line A while Wilson favoured Line B. Line A put Lvov and the oil wells outside Poland while line B put them inside. There may well be other differences on Galicia but I have not come across them.

A Commission on Polish Affairs had been set up at the peace conference and it proposed three solutions for East Galicia, they were independence – autonomy under league control – partition with (Russian) Ukraine. On May 14 the Poles launched an offensive in East Galicia. The Americans and British pressed the Poles to accept an armistice or risk a loss of allied support for restoration of land in Prussian Poland. The French and Italians told them to continue the offensive and create a fait accompli. During sessions of the Supreme Council on May 17 18 and 19 Lloyd George and Woodrow Wilson proposed imposing sanctions on Poland if they continued their offensive. On May 26 the French agreed with the USA and UK. Later because of the Bolshevik advance in the Ukraine the allies decided to approve Polish actions. On June 17 the Commission again came up with three possible solutions and recommended one, that East Galicia be attached to Poland and a suggestion that Lvov be made a free city. On June 28 1919 the Versailles treaty was signed and Wilson seems to have taken no further interest in East Galicia.

Why did the French agree with the Anglo-Americans and against their Polish ally on May 26, 1919?

[Futurist]

The population was apathetic and generally liked the communists. They promised land for free the to peasants, well-paid jobs to workers and other free stuff. You couldn't dislike that.

But why didn't the Poles, Balts, and Finns fall for this Bolshevik propaganda to anywhere near the same extent as you claim that the Western Ukrainians and Belarusians did?

Also, it's quite interesting that in spite of you claiming that Western Ukrainians were rather Sovietophilic and Communistophilic in 1920, they also became extremely Sovietophobic and Communistophobic by the 1940s--with them even waging a years'-long insurgency against the Red Army after the end of World War II:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army

[wm]

Nationalism and religiosity of their elites.
But the Ukrainian elites were tiny and the Belarusian microscopic, so the peasants and the (local) Jews were an easy prey for the Bolsheviks.

The UPA didn't represent all Ukrainians, and ruled through terror and ruthless propaganda directed at the peasants.

[Futurist]

Nationalism and religiosity of their elites.
But the Ukrainian elites were tiny and the Belarusian microscopic, so the peasants and the (local) Jews were an easy prey for the Bolsheviks.

Did this change in the 1930s when the Soviets began starving and purging their population in huge numbers?

The UPA didn't represent all Ukrainians, and ruled through terror and ruthless propaganda directed at the peasants.

The UPA was rather popular in western Ukraine--especially Galicia--no? Not in the rest of Ukraine, of course.

[wm]

The UPA was capable of creating a government and ruling Ukraine. The problem was they had numerous enemies (especially the USSR) but no friends, so it was not going to happen.

I don't think purges were a good tool to create elites, the intention was to destroy national elites.

[Futurist]

The UPA was capable of creating a government and ruling Ukraine. The problem was they had numerous enemies (especially the USSR) but no friends, so it was not going to happen.

OK.

I don't think purges were a good tool to create elites, the intention was to destroy national elites.

I meant did western Ukrainians and western Belarusians stop supporting the Bolsheviks in the 1930s as a result of the Holodomor and Soviet purges that were occurring during this time (such as Stalin's Great Purge)?

[wm]

Those things could have been explained away, and Soviet propaganda was up to the task.
The Soviets didn't count on massive support anyway, a small core of fanatical and battle-hardened revolutionaries was sufficient.
Their strategy was to exploit a catastrophic event resulting in severe political weakening of the country (like in Germany, in 1918). They were like jackals attacking a diseased animal.

During the invasion of Poland there were many communist uprisings and attacks in the Eastern part of Poland (for example in Jewish Skidel), so no many of them still supported communism to the end.