1930s books about the Polish Corridor

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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#16

Post by gebhk » 11 Nov 2019, 15:07

Sid Guttridge wrote:
11 Nov 2019, 13:57
And yet Danzig's entire raison d'etre was to export the produce of the interior of Poland.
Historically that is true. However, if we assume this continued to be the case, this makes the corporate behaviour of Danzig somewhat counter-intuitive. Surely the sensible course would have been to make nice with the Poles rather than maintaining a virtually permanent stance of belligerent non-cooperation from the very outset of the interbellum. It was this very attitude that was a potent driver in the creation of Danzig's nemesis, Gdynia, after all.

It would appear that in the years 1935-38 Danzig's throughput volume grew faster than Gdynia's despite the apparent reduction of Polish exports via Danzig (only 7.5% of the total value of Polish exports in 1938 according to the data supplied by Steve). So was Germany giving/offering Danzig new opportunities as a reward for reunification?

The irony is, I guess, that whatever happened, Gdynia was not going away.

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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#17

Post by Steve » 12 Nov 2019, 01:18

Hello, as Bertram’s and Cieslak’s figures match I shall assume Bertram’s figure of 14.694,898 million tons out and in for 1938 is correct. Taking Cieslak’s 1938 Danzig figure of 7,127,917 tons (7127;9173 is presumably a misprint) away from 14,694,898 tons gives us a figure of 7,566,981 tons for Gdynia not the 8.7 million tons on the Gdynia website. So in 1938 48.5% of Polish trade by weight was using Danzig and 51.5% using Gdynia, the figure of 54.2% by value ties in nicely with 51.5%.

For Gdynia between 1933 and 1938 the tonnage increased by nearly one and a half million tons which may be partly due to the new Polish Coal Trunk Line running from Silesia to Gdynia. Construction started in 1928 but until the last part was completed in 1933 the trains had to go through Danzig. For Danzig the figures from 1927 to 1931 inc. were always nearly eight or eight plus million tons but then they drop away. In the five years between 1932 and 1937 they only hit 6 million in 1934 rising to seven plus for 1937 and 1938 but still a million tons short of where they had been in1931. In 1920 probably 100% of all imports by value entering Poland by ship came through Danzig but by 1938 if the figure of 7.5% is correct then a huge change had taken place.

Sid makes a valid point as Danzig had to stay ahead of Gdynia and compete for Poland’s trade otherwise it would stagnate. The Poles probably couldn’t switch the low value bulk cargo that was using Danzig in 1938 to Gdynia because Gdynia did not have the facilities to handle it. The start of large ship building in Gdynia would not have been welcomed in Danzig as the Poles could quite likely build ships cheaper than the Germans. Certainly the sensible approach for Danzig would have been to co-operate with the Polish state but this dispute was about national pride and common sense then goes out the window.

I have a question gebhk which I hope you can answer. I have been to Gdansk and was very impressed by the rebuild but I never thought to ask this when I was there or until now. When you walk around and admire the old centre is what you are looking at a remarkable example of façadism. That is the outside of the buildings look as 1939 but behind this façade it is all new. Were all the buildings rebuilt as they were in 1939 both on the inside as well as the outside?


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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#18

Post by wm » 12 Nov 2019, 02:33

Gdynia was needed because in case of war Danzig would have been unreliable or even unavailable.
That was clearly demonstrated during the Polish-Soviet War when the local communists initiated strikes that stopped weapons deliveries to Poland.

Danzig wasn't seen as an enemy, I have a book published in Poland in 1929 (The Port of Danzig) with the single intention to promote Danzig and the port worldwide, with numerous Polish and German adverts peacefully coexisting next to each other.
It was published by the periodical The Polish Economist.

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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#19

Post by gebhk » 12 Nov 2019, 13:50

Taking Cieslak’s 1938 Danzig figure of 7,127,917 tons (7127;9173 is presumably a misprint) away from 14,694,898 tons gives us a figure of 7,566,981 tons for Gdynia not the 8.7 million tons on the Gdynia website
Cieslak's figures for 1938 are:
7127K tons (ie 7.1 million tons approx) for Danzig and
9173K tons (ie 9.1 million tons approx) for Gdynia.
For Danzig the figures from 1927 to 1931 inc. were always nearly eight or eight plus million tons but then they drop away. In the five years between 1932 and 1937 they only hit 6 million in 1934 rising to seven plus for 1937 and 1938 but still a million tons short of where they had been in1931.
That is of course true, but I would suggest little-related to Gdynia. Rather it is a reflection of the international economic situation and I bet that if you overlay almost any fiscal data for the Polish state for the years 1931-1939 over Cieslak's figures for Danzig, there would be a good match. If Gdynia was the only or even just the primary cause of Danzig's economic problems, we should see a continuous downward trend. This, evidently, does not happen. On the contrary, as the International and particularly Polish economy starts to revive, so does that of Danzig (in raw tonnage outstripping Gdynia in rate of increase) so that by 1939 Danzig is overtaking Gdynia in tonnage again.
In 1920 probably 100% of all imports by value entering Poland by ship came through Danzig but by 1938 if the figure of 7.5% is correct then a huge change had taken place.
This appears to be a misleading comparison. To begin with, BdeC's 7.5% appears to be a percentage of the total Polish imports not just those from overseas (Gdynia's share of those being 54.2% leaving, presumably, 40% imported through other ports and overland). Secondly, without an analysis of what was being imported in 1920 vs 1938 (and this must have changed very much*) and its impact on handling profitability, it is impossible to draw any useful conclusions.
The start of large ship building in Gdynia would not have been welcomed in Danzig as the Poles could quite likely build ships cheaper than the Germans.
Competition is never welcome but I can't see any scenario where Gdynia was going to go away and I doubt that the leaders of Danzig in the 20s and 30s could either. Danzig would have to become more competitive and in the interim it's best option was to cooperate and make what money it could from that by selling/leasing existing expertise and equipment to and investing in Gdynia.
this dispute was about national pride and common sense then goes out the window
There clearly was a powerful element of that, however in my experience doctrinaire politics rapidly hit the buffers when the outcomes begin to hurt the wallet of the majority. This, of course, has less impact in a totalitarian state, but the attitude of Danzig was one of belligerent obstructionism from the outset, long before the NAZIs came to power. Ironically, if anything, initially things improved after AH came to power and was courting Poland.
Gdynia was needed because in case of war Danzig would have been unreliable or even unavailable.
A problem resolved by the Westerplatte development completed in 1926.
Danzig wasn't seen as an enemy, I have a book published in Poland in 1929 (The Port of Danzig) with the single intention to promote Danzig and the port worldwide, with numerous Polish and German adverts peacefully coexisting next to each other.
It was published by the periodical The Polish Economist.
In our current off-topic debate it is the attitude of Danzig to Poland that is at issue rather than the other way around. However the book you mention must be a cracking contribution to the thread. Are there any particularly interesting parts relating to the corridor?

Steve, alas I cannot answer the architectural question - you at least, unlike me, have been there. However, I have a few fiends who I am sure can. I will let you know.

* In 1920 Poland was at war, fighting for her life and all military gear had to be imported from overseas. In 1938 Poland was not at war and aside from a limited amount of components and raw materials, was producing its own weaponry, ammunition and equipment. The same was probably true of many aspects of the civilian side of things. This would have been happening whether Gdynia existed or not.

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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#20

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 13 Nov 2019, 01:44

Futurist wrote:
06 Nov 2019, 03:00
What is interesting is that the Polish Corridor (well, most of it) consistently voted for the Polish Party in Imperial German Reichstag elections--without exception, I believe.
Indeed that was the case.
Sid Guttridge wrote:
06 Nov 2019, 13:10
I have a 1934 German ethnic atlas that shows that there was a narrow corridor (rather narrower than the political Corridor) of non-German majority to the Baltic. Thus, on purely ethnic grounds, a German claim was questionable.

I have an older German atlas from 1900 that shows an even wider Polish-majority corridor to the Baltic.
Which shows that the 1934 atlas was pure propaganda, because between 1900 and 1934 the share of non-Germans definitely did not decline in the Corridor. Quite the opposite - the Polish census of 1931 showed that Germans were only 10%, significantly less than in 1900. Meanwhile, this German atlas from 1934 claims that the region supposedly became more German since 1900 - it is false.

I found sources with ethnic data for various years over the course of entire century (1831-1931) and this data shows that at no point during the whole century were ethnic Germans a majority of population in any of the main counties of the Corridor:

By main counties of the Corridor I mean these (see the map below):

- Puck and Wejherowo (located directly along the Baltic Sea coast)
- Kartuzy, Kościerzyna (separating Pommern from Free City Danzig)

Image

Data is from four types of statistics - general censuses (1837, 1852, 1855, 1858, 1890, 1900, 1905, 1910, 1921, 1931), censuses of school children (1886, 1891, 1896, 1901, 1906, 1911) and estimates by ethnographers (Ramułt) and scholars (Belzyt).

The fourth type is the map posted above (estimates for ca. 1918).

Wejherowo county at first included Puck, then Puck became its own county, then was merged again.

Wejherowo/Neustadt County:
(includes Puck/Putzig until 1861)

Year - percent of Poles/Kashubians

1831 - 78%
1837 - 77%
1852 - 80%
1855 - 80%
1858 - 79%
1861 - 80%

Puck/Putzig County (since 1886):

Year - percent of Poles/Kashubians

1886 - 75%
1890 - 69%
1890 - 73%
1891 - 74%
1892 - 77%
1896 - 72%
1900 - 69%
1901 - 76%
1905 - 70%
1906 - 73%
1910 - 70%
1910 - 74%
1911 - 74%
1918 - 77% (see the map above)

Wejherowo/Neustadt County: / this county included the city of Sopot/Zoppot, which after 1918 became part of Free City Danzig
(since 1886 without Putzig/Puck)

Year - percent of Poles/Kashubians

1886 - 64%
1890 - 56%
1890 - 61%
1891 - 62%
1892 - 67%
1896 - 61%
1900 - 54%
1901 - 60%
1905 - 51%
1906 - 62%
1910 - 50% (the only year in whole century when Germans were as much as 50% according to official data, but including Zoppot)
1910 - 62%
1911 - 63%
1918 - 55% (see the map above)

And in Inter-War Poland after 1918:

Wejherowo-Puck (Maritime County) and Gdynia:
(Sopot/Zoppot excluded as it was added to Danzig)

Year - percent of Poles/Kashubians

1921 - 89%
1931 - 95%

=====
=====

Kartuzy/Karthaus County:

Year - percent of Poles/Kashubians

1831 - 84%
1837 - 84%
1852 - 77%
1855 - 76%
1858 - 76%
1861 - 77%
1886 - 66%
1890 - 67%
1890 - 68%
1891 - 66%
1892 - 76%
1896 - 70%
1900 - 69%
1901 - 71%
1905 - 70%
1906 - 72%
1910 - 72%
1910 - 74%
1911 - 74%
1918 - 77% (see the map above)

And in Inter-War Poland after 1918:

1921 - 92%
1931 - 93%

=====
=====

Kościerzyna/Berent County:

Year - percent of Poles/Kashubians

1831 - 71%
1837 - 71%
1852 - 64%
1855 - 64%
1858 - 63%
1861 - 64%
1886 - 57%
1890 - 54%
1890 - 57%
1891 - 56%
1892 - 59%
1896 - 58%
1900 - 55%
1901 - 59%
1905 - 56%
1906 - 60%
1910 - 58%
1910 - 62%
1911 - 63%
1918 - 65% (see the map above)

And in Inter-War Poland after 1918:

1921 - 81%
1931 - 88%

Image
There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.

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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#21

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 13 Nov 2019, 01:54

As for ethnic maps. These two below, for early 1800s and 1892, are based on modern research.

They show that ethnically Kashubian areas extended also west of the Corridor, into Pommern:

Early 1800s:

Image

Year 1892:

Image

1892 - maps based on research by ethnographer Stefan Ramułt, originally published in 1899:

Image

Image

^^^
Based on that as well as on economic and strategic considerations, perhaps it would have been better to actually give Poland a wider Corridor than OTL. Adding just some extra 2760 square kilometers of sparsely populated territory (ca. 100,000 people in total - most of them Germans, but the area had a substantial Kashubian/Polish minority, at least 15,000) would double the length of Polish Baltic Sea coastline.

In real history the Second Polish Republic had:

- 71 kilometers of Baltic coastline without Vistula Lagoon
- 147 kilometers of coastline if Vistula Lagoon is included

In this scenario it would have 141 and 217 respectively (70 kilometers of coastline more), as well as a sea port in Leba.

Bytow (Bütow) and Lebork (Lauenburg) had also been parts of the Polish Crown before the Partitions of Poland. And Leba River had historically been the westernmost boundary of the German Holy Roman Empire. See this political map from the 1600s-1700s (area 3):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81eba_(river)

^^^
"the mouth of the Łeba River marked the north-easternmost point of the Holy Roman Empire till its dissolution in 1806"

Image

Another map showing historical border from times before the Partitions of Poland:

Image

^^^
Brandenburg-Prussia obtained partial control of Bytow-Lebork in 1657, full in 1771-72:

Image

But Lupow River would have been a better border, it would allow the inclusion of Kashubs west & south of Lebasee into Poland:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81upawa_(river) - Lupow (Łupawa) River

Image

Proposed extension westward of the Polish Corridor:

Image

^^^ More detailed map showing railways and roads:

Image

^^^
Not sure if such wider Corridor could prevent WW2 but it would definitely be easier to defend.
There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.

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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#22

Post by Steve » 13 Nov 2019, 09:02

Hi gebhk, I misunderstood your use of the semi colon in Cieslak’s figures of total turnover, my fault. If Cieslak says that 7.127 million tons came in through Danzig and 9.173 million tons came in through Gdynia in 1938 then we have a total of 16.3 million tons for total imports by way of the Baltic. Bertram says that for 1938 a total 14.7 million tons came in so someone is wrong but I trust Cieslak.

It may be that the downturn in Danzig’s fortunes is unrelated to Gdynia but there seems to be a correlation in the rise of the Gdynia figures from 1931 when they suddenly shoot up and the fall in Danzig’s figures from 1932. All or most of Gdynia’s traffic would have once gone through Danzig.

Using Cieslak’s figures:-
In 1931 Danzig has 61.1% of turnover Gdynia has 38.9% - 1932 Danzig 51.3% Gdynia 48.7% - 1933 Danzig 45.8% Gdynia 54.2% - 1934 Danzig 47% Gdynia 53% - 1935 Danzig 40.5% Gdynia 59.5% - 1936 Danzig 42.2% Gdynia 57.8% - 1937 Danzig 44.4% Gdynia 55.6% - 1938 Danzig 43.7% Gdynia 56.3%

As Cieslak’s figures show Gdynia throughout the 1930s increased the ammount of tonnage handled (one small blip) and also its percentage of total tonnage. Danzig’s tonnage figures do exactly what you would expect them to do in a world depression, after 1931 they fall and the tonnage and percentages never return to 1931. Even when tonnage rises as in 1934 and significantly in 1937 and 1938 Gdynia’s figures also rise and the gap remains. Danzig on its good tonnage figures for 1937 is handling less percentage wise of Poland’s trade then it did in the bad year of 1932. I am not using the 1939 figures which cover the first six months. If you double Gdynia’s figures you get 9,990 tons which is inline with 1938 but doubling Danzig’s figures gives you 11,042 tons which is out of line with 1938.

It seems that the world depression of the 1930s did not impact Gdynia though it clearly impacts Danzig. Interestingly in 1932 the tonnage going through Gdynia decreases very slightly (the only decrease in the 1930s) while in Danzig it decreases substantially. Though Gdynia’s tonnage is very sightly down its percentage of Poland’s total tonnage shoots up so clearly it was getting priority.

The League of Nations High Commissioner for Danzig rules in 1929 that “Poland is obliged to use the harbour facilities of Danzig to the fullest extent” Poland acknowledges nothing in the ruling as prohibiting further development of Gdynia. In 1929 Danzig’s leading exports are coal 5.3 million tons, timber 613,000 tons and grain 265,000 tons.

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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#23

Post by gebhk » 13 Nov 2019, 14:17

If Cieslak says that 7.127 million tons came in through Danzig and 9.173 million tons came in through Gdynia in 1938 then we have a total of 16.3 million tons for total imports by way of the Baltic. Bertram says that for 1938 a total 14.7 million tons came in so someone is wrong but I trust Cieslak.
AFAIK, Cieslak's figures are for complete turnover - imports and exports. They could both therefore be right, but if that is the case, it puts an altogether different and interesting light on the matter.
there seems to be a correlation in the rise of the Gdynia figures from 1931 when they suddenly shoot up and the fall in Danzig’s figures from 1932.
If you plot out Cieslak's figures on a graph, you will see that there is very little correlation between the throughput of both ports over the 1924-39 period. The figures for Gdynia after 1931 do not shoot up. 1931-32 sees the only negative growth period and overall, there is a definite albeit small levelling off of growth between 1931- 1936. Danzig clearly suffers in the same period but far more dramatically than Gdynia. After 1936 both towns resume good rates of growth. However, while Gdynia resumes its pre 1931 rate of growth 1936-39, that of Danzig is more rapid and by 1939 appears to be overtaking Gdynia in absolute tonnage.
doubling Danzig’s figures gives you 11,042 tons which is out of line with 1938.
However it is very much in line with the figures for 1936-37 - in other words it is 1938 that may well be out of line - a 'blip'.
It seems that the world depression of the 1930s did not impact Gdynia though it clearly impacts Danzig
As discussed above, Gdynia does appear to be impacted by the world depression, albeit to a much lesser degree than Danzig.
Though Gdynia’s tonnage is very slightly down, its percentage of Poland’s total tonnage shoots up so clearly it was getting priority.

That is absolutely the case. However, I think one has to view the matter in the context of Poland's export history overall. At the very least you have to vector in the impact of the Customs War with Germany (1925-34). Without getting into the ins and outs of it, the primary outcome was that Poland, deprived of its traditional export markets in Germany, had to find new customers and did so successfully - overseas. Initially, the biggest beneficiary was Danzig, with 1925-26 seeing the fastest rate of growth in tonnage ever during the interbellum. However as Gdynia steadily expanded its capacity, Danzig's portion of this particular pie declined resulting in slowing growth until 1931/32 before the doldrums of 1931-35. I would certainly agree that in all likelihood, this slow-down of growth and a more severe impact of the depression than would have been otherwise, would not have occurred had Gdynia not been there. In short, it would appear that Danzig is profiting less and less from the new Polish business. However, there is little to suggest that its old business streams were affected by Gdynia to any great extent and it would appear that, towards the end of the period, it had developed new business streams on which it is doing very nicely, thank you very much with a faster rate of growth that that of Gdynia.

I guess the point is that for me the traditional narrative - and I make it shamelessly facile -

that Danzig's sole reason for existence was export and import into Poland; that despite this the city embarked from the outset on a policy of corporate harry-curry by insulting and generally obstructing its sole customer when doing business with them; that Poland irked by this behaviour built Gdynia which, over time, took the vast majority of Danzig's business away, causing gloom and despondence; consequently the gloomy and despondent Danzigers became Nazis and demanded reunification with Germany which, presumably, would have sealed their commercial fate :x

makes no rational sense whatsoever and is largely untrue in its base assumptions. Firstly I cannot believe that Poland was Danzig's sole customer and that all of East Prussia's import/export flowed through Kongsberg and, at the end, Memel. Secondly, there is zero evidence that Danzig was heading for commercial oblivion in 1939 - on the contrary it was enjoying a boom and overall the rate of growth of both towns (in volume at least) of the entire interbellum, is quite similar - the main difference being that the rate of growth of Gdynia appears to have been steady while that of Danzig followed more of a pattern of boom and bust.

If, however, we make the assumption that Danzig's main income streams were associated with Germany, both the patterns of behaviour and the throughput volume data would make an awful lot more sense. To me at least.

Trouble is we are dealing with very incomplete and potentially misleading data:
- raw tonnage does not necessarily immediately translate into profit, nor for that matter does value of the goods.
- what was the split between import and export and what was being imported and exported
- what was the human cost of modernising Danzig's infrastructure to compete with Gdynia (and the rest of the world for that matter)?
- what was the profit derived from doing business with Germany?
- What was the potential profit of re-unification with Germany?

I would suggest that only if we have answers to these questions, would we be able to have a more rational understanding of the tensions. However, I am painfully aware that we are straying ever-further from the topic of this thread and perhaps this segment should be excised and put in a separate thread?

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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#24

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 14 Nov 2019, 15:48

Also during entire century there was substantial Polish/Kashubian presence in areas which later became the Free City Danzig.

Some data from the 19th century:

Landkreis Danzig (= areas surrounding the city; later split into Höhe & Niederung):

Year - percent Poles/Kashubians:

1837 - 17%
1852 - 17%
1855 - 17%
1858 - 16%

And if counting only areas of future Danziger Höhe (without Danziger Niederung):

Year - percent Poles/Kashubians:

1831 - 32%
1861 - 32%

=====

For West Prussia as a whole, earliest exact ethnic figures are from 1823 and 1831:

Georg Hassel, "Statistischer Umriß..." (published in 1823):

Poles (incl. Kashubs) ------------ 52%
Germans -------------------------- 44%
Mennonites* ----------------------- 2%
Jews -------------------------------- 2%

*Vistula Delta Mennonites, predominantly of Dutch origin.

Karl Andree, "Polen..." (published in 1831 in Leipzig):

Poles (incl. Kashubs) ------------ 50%
Germans (incl. Mennonites) --- 47%
Jews -------------------------------- 3%

Already by that time German colonization increased their share compared to 1772.

=====

After WW1, Poland got 2/3 of the territory and half of population of West Prussia:

Total pre-WW1 area of West Prussia - 25,580 km2 - of which:

Went to the Polish Republic - 15,900 km2 (62% of area, with 57% of the population)
Went to Free City Danzig - 1,966 km2 (8% of area, with 19% of the population)
Was added to East Prussia - 2,927 km2 (11% of area, with 15% of the population)
German west of the Corridor - 4,787 km2 (19% of area, with 9% of the population)
There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.

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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#25

Post by Futurist » 14 Nov 2019, 16:44

@Peter K: This article might be of interest to you:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 0903319325

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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#26

Post by Steve » 15 Nov 2019, 06:46

Hello, 1930 is a better start date for when the figures for Gdynia start shooting up then 1931. If you take Cieslak’s 1930 figure of 3,626 tons as 100% then by 1938 Gdynia’s tonnage has increased by 253% to 9,173 tons. Of course it all depends on the definition of shooting up.

In 1932 Danzig is 282,000 tons ahead of Gdynia but by the end of 1938 it is 2,046,000 tons behind Gdynia. Danzig’s average monthly tonnage for the seven months of 1939 is 788,000 tons which is a remarkable increase from 594,000 tons in 1938. If there was a rise in trade you would expect to see something roughly comparable in Gdynia’s figures. They go from an average monthly total in 1938 of 764,000 tons down to an average monthly total of 713,000 tons in 1939. It seems that trading conditions are worse in 1939 for Gdynia possibly caused by fear of war from April onwards. If you accept that the Polish government would not favour Danzig over Gdynia then where is this large amount of extra tonnage for Danzig coming from?

In August 1939 Polish customs controls ended in the free city hence Cieslak’s figures for Danzig only go up to the end of July. But in June Danzig organised a boycott of Polish officials in the free city and Polish customs officials were beaten and arrested. There was also shooting across the free city border with Polish border guards. You would think that Polish trade from June onwards would have encountered difficulties passing through Danzig and started dropping. I would guess that Danzig’s 1939 tonnage figures have a lot to do with preparations in East Prussia for war.

While enjoying a cup of great British tea I have been looking on the World at War web site. There are figures there for the tonnage Gdynia handled in 1928 and 1929 and they agree with Cieslak. It also said that traffic in the port of Danzig dropped by 4% in the year 1930 against about 20% in other Baltic ports. Danzig was weathering the world recession well till 1932.

The 1929 figures on what was going out through Danzig (previous post) which I also got from the World at War site show that coal was the ports main Polish export. Assuming the figure of 5.3 million tons is correct then it represented 62% of Danzig trade in 1929. I don’t know the price of Polish coal now but I do know that in the 70s and 80s Polish coal could be imported cheaper than British coal could be mined. I would guess that in the 1930s it was no dearer relative to British coal and probably even cheaper. Assuming that coal remained the main export throughout the 1930s the percentage of Polish trade by value going out through Danzig would have been small relative to the amount.

Anyway I’m off for a brief holiday but not to Gdansk.

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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#27

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 16 Nov 2019, 16:38

Futurist wrote:
14 Nov 2019, 16:44
@Peter K: This article might be of interest to you:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 0903319325
Thank you! Unfortunately it is behind paywall. Maybe I will buy it later.

This one is available for free and discusses German census data from 1830s to 1910s (you need to use Google Translate):

"Kashubians in the light of Prussian census data in years 1827-1911" (published in 2017):

http://bazhum.muzhp.pl/media//files/Act ... 94-235.pdf

And this one has estimates about West Prussia's population before the Partitions and shortly after, in the 1770s-1780s:

"Polish population in West Prussia: its distribution and development during the current century" (published in 1889):

https://polona.pl/item/ludnosc-polska-w ... c4NjQ2ODE/

In this publication the share of military, clerks and colonists among the German population in 1910 census is examined:

https://www.sbc.org.pl/dlibra/show-cont ... 8?id=75218

Here you can read West Prussian Land Register from 1772-73, I found my ancestor (from Kashubian areas) there too:

http://www.odessa3.org/collections/land/wprussia/

A large portion of Germans in West Prussia were not native to the region since pre-1772, but settled there at various points during German rule (1772-1918). This is why at the Versailles Conference, Polish delegates wanted to obtain the right to deport these German who came to the region since 1886, when Königlich Preußische Ansiedlungskommission in den Provinzen Westpreußen und Posen was formed.

That also applied to some parts of Posen. For example German-majority enclave around Bydgoszcz/Bromberg was formed only after 1772 as the result of Frederician Colonization along the Netze River, and as the result of development of Bromberg into a major city (driven largely by German immigration). Prior to the Partitions, Bydgoszcz had been a small town with ethnic Polish and Jewish population.

In western parts of Posen, German settlement area had existed already before the Partitions, since the 1500s and 1600s when religious refugees from Habsburg-ruled Silesia fled to more tolerant Poland. Habsburgs persecuted Protestants in Lower Silesia.

There were also Catholic Germans in Posen with roots dating back to the 1700s, before the Partitions. Those mainly supported the Poles and identified with them during Bismarck's Kulturkampf. This group mostly became Polonized over time.
There are words which carry the presage of defeat. Defence is such a word. What is the result of an even victorious defence? The next attempt of imposing it to that weaker, defender. The attacker, despite temporary setback, feels the master of situation.

Futurist
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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#28

Post by Futurist » 09 Jun 2020, 04:18

Peter K wrote:
13 Nov 2019, 01:54
As for ethnic maps. These two below, for early 1800s and 1892, are based on modern research.

They show that ethnically Kashubian areas extended also west of the Corridor, into Pommern:

Early 1800s:

Image

Year 1892:

Image
What is the source for these two maps?

Futurist
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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#29

Post by Futurist » 21 Jun 2020, 22:55

Steve wrote:
08 Nov 2019, 00:08
If you are going to decide ownership of disputed land by which ethnic group lives on the land then the Poles had a perfect right to the land which made up the Polish Corridor. Of course it did not matter if Poles, Germans or Inuit’s were a majority Germany was not going to accept the situation.How many people and trains were crossing the corridor was also immaterial since its mere existence was an affront. What made it worse were the tariffs imposed on rail traffic and that the country causing all this mental anguish to Germans was not in their league economically or militarily. After twenty years there was still no sign that the Germans were going to permanently acquiesce to the corridor and given the relative size of the two protagonists one could not defy the other indefinitely.
Did German Catholics feel as strong about the Polish Corridor as German Protestants did? After all, someone from, say, Bavaria or the Rhineland is unlikely to be as affected by the Polish Corridor as a Prussian would.

Also, of course Poland couldn't beat Germany in a one-to-one war in the long-run--hence the need for Poland to secure alliances with other powers so that it won't have to fight Germany by itself.

Sid Guttridge
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Re: 1930s books about the Polish Corridor

#30

Post by Sid Guttridge » 21 Jun 2020, 23:58

Hi futurist,

Most of the expansion of the Reich from 1933 was amongst Roman Catholics. I'm 1933 they amounted to a third of the population. By the end of the decade this had grown to about half. So, in many ways Hitler's project was to bring Catholic Germans into the Reich.

The Polish Corridor may not have been their issue, but they would have been pretty churlish to begrudge a few Protestant Prussians the same advantage.

Cheers,

Sid.

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