Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigration?

Discussions on all aspects of Poland during the Second Polish Republic and the Second World War. Hosted by Piotr Kapuscinski.
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Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigration?

#1

Post by Futurist » 21 Jun 2020, 22:28

Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigration like Western Europe, North America, Australia, and New Zealand did in real life?

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#2

Post by Futurist » 21 Jun 2020, 22:33

This map shows that, in real life, on average, Eastern Europe has less immigrants than Western Europe has--possibly as a result of Communism and its legacy, both on the economy and on people's attitudes towards mass immigration:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/56/69/b9 ... 829b1c.jpg

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#3

Post by wm » 22 Jun 2020, 21:05

Eastern Europe was (very) poor and no magic could have changed that.
No sane person is going to emigrate to a poor country.

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#4

Post by Futurist » 22 Jun 2020, 21:11

wm wrote:
22 Jun 2020, 21:05
Eastern Europe was (very) poor and no magic could have changed that.
No sane person is going to emigrate to a poor country.
1938 Poland was actually comparable to Spain and Portugal in terms of GDP per capita and yet those two countries currently have a much higher immigrant percentage right now than Poland has:

https://i.imgur.com/oVivRC1.png

Image

Poland's PISA exam results are actually slightly higher than those of both Spain and Portugal, so it's hard for me to believe that Poland doesn't have the same amount of economic potential as Spain and Portugal have (if not an even greater amount of economic potential):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme ... ng_results

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#5

Post by wm » 23 Jun 2020, 00:57

In the thirties being as poor as Spain or Portugal wasn't any reason to be proud of it. Actually both countries got richer after the ww2 so post-war it was reasonable to emigrate there.
And both were colonial empires, so many of their colonial "natives" ended up in their home countries.

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#6

Post by Futurist » 23 Jun 2020, 01:04

wm wrote:
23 Jun 2020, 00:57
In the thirties being as poor as Spain or Portugal wasn't any reason to be proud of it. Actually both countries got richer after the ww2 so post-war it was reasonable to emigrate there.
So, why wouldn't the same thing have happened with Poland after WWII had it avoided Communism during this time?
And both were colonial empires, so many of their colonial "natives" ended up in their home countries.
Yes, but that's not the only places that these countries got immigrants from. For instance, Spain also got a lot of immigrants from places such as Romania and Morocco (most of which was NOT a Spanish colony).

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#7

Post by wm » 24 Jun 2020, 20:20

Poland as a poor country didn't need Gastarbeiter, today the culturally and linguistically close Ukrainians and other Eastern Europeans fill the role perfectly.

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#8

Post by Futurist » 24 Jun 2020, 21:04

wm wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 20:20
Poland as a poor country didn't need Gastarbeiter, today the culturally and linguistically close Ukrainians and other Eastern Europeans fill the role perfectly.
But what happens if the supply of Ukrainians and other Eastern Europeans will run out?

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#9

Post by wm » 24 Jun 2020, 21:44

So far mostly the Nepalese have been mentioned for some reason.

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#10

Post by Futurist » 24 Jun 2020, 21:50

wm wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 21:44
So far mostly the Nepalese have been mentioned for some reason.
Interesting. The Russian blogger Anatoly Karlin recently visited Poland and talked about how he saw a sizable amount of South Asians in Poland recently. Certainly much more so than ten years ago.

https://www.unz.com/akarlin/open-thread-98/

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#11

Post by wm » 24 Jun 2020, 22:55

They must have been tourists. There are Vietnamese in Poland (and many more in Czechia) but I don't think they are that visible.

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#12

Post by Futurist » 24 Jun 2020, 23:10

wm wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 22:55
They must have been tourists. There are Vietnamese in Poland (and many more in Czechia) but I don't think they are that visible.
Fun fact: When I went to university (two different ones, actually), I knew two Vietnamese guys who were both originally from Poland (one at each university that I went to).

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#13

Post by Futurist » 01 Aug 2020, 04:03

BTW, what makes Poland specifically so attractive to South Asian tourists?

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#14

Post by wm » 03 Aug 2020, 19:47

I don't think it's especially attractive; they are simply everywhere.
This planet is too small for all Asian or even South Asian tourists.

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Re: Had Poland managed to avoid decades of Communist rule after World War II, would it have received much more immigrati

#15

Post by Futurist » 05 Sep 2020, 22:27

wm wrote:
03 Aug 2020, 19:47
I don't think it's especially attractive; they are simply everywhere.
This planet is too small for all Asian or even South Asian tourists.
Interesting. I was under the impression that South Asian tourists don't have much money since their countries are poor, but maybe it's the elites of their countries who are doing most of the travelling abroad?

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