How would Hitler's policy towards Poland have been different had Danzig been outright given to Poland back in 1919?

[Futurist]

It should be mentioned that 19.3 percent of voters were people who didn't live in Upper Silesia anymore, but because they were born there they were eligible to vote.
Most of them were Germans, and that privilege distorted the plebiscite substantially.

Yep:

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plebiscyt ... 82osowania

Green = Pro-Polish vote
Orange = Pro-German vote

The first map here is for the vote with the emigrants, the second map here is for the vote without the emigrants:

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plebiscyt ... _Voten.png



https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plebiscyt ... _vote).png

[wm]

For about a half a year, Hitler asked for Danzig and the extraterritorial highway. Hitler and Ribbentrop never even tried to negotiate for anything less.

[Futurist]

That was in a scenario where Poland never actually controlled Danzig, though. In this hypothetical scenario, things are going to be different starting from 1919.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Futurist,

It might be interesting if true, but it isn't.

Hitler raised Danzig and the proposed extraterritorial highway in October 1938, January 1939 and March 1939.

The British guarantee came after that.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Futurist]

I think that wm's point was that it was after the British guarantee that Hitler began upping his demands and also began insisting on a plebiscite in the rest of the Polish Corridor (other than in Gdynia, which Hitler was "quite generously" willing to let Poland keep; based on the people who lived in the Polish Corridor back in 1918).

[Delwin]

... in order to ensure "proper" results. This is actually interesting when you permit to vote people who live there purely because they were in that area due to its state funded functions, starting from military.

As to "extraterritorial highway" this means effectively cutting down Polish Pomerania from Poland. If you can freely move anything - including tanks - you may easily cut the whole area.

[gebhk]

Hi Delwin. I am entirely in sympathy with the view that only those people who have to live with the consequences should be allowed to vote. However, fact is many countries including the UK and Poland allow ex-pats to vote in national elections etc. All I am saying, is that this sort of thing is not unusual.

The exterritorial highway has been debated to death elsewhere on this forum and others. The fact is the Germans could move anything including tanks at will already albeit not freely - they had to pay for the privilege. Militarily the formal status of the route was of academic interest only - it made no difference tactically. A few tunnels and/or viaducts could have dealt with the 'cutting off' issue in peacetime. As I recall, the Defence Ministry and the Internal Affairs Ministry had no objection in principle to the concept - in fact even seeing positives (better insight into troop movements in and out of East Prussia for the former, a boost to the local economy for the latter). The objections were financial (loss of transit fees) and political.

[Futurist]

In regards to the German extraterritorial highway, it's worth noting that it would have had to be significantly longer had Danzig been and remained part of Poland, no?

[wm]

Polish Danzig is basically Sudetenland-lite with the same consequences.

Hitler wanted an extraterritorial highway probably because in the war when Poland stays neutral:

Belligerents are forbidden to move troops or convoys of either munitions of war or supplies across the territory of a neutral Power.
Rights and Duties of Neutral Powers and Persons in Case of War on Land (Hague V)

[Futurist]

Isn't Danzig easier to Polonize than the Sudetenland was to Czechify, though? I mean, the Poles to Danzig population ratio is, what, 50 to 1? In contrast, in Bohemia, there were something like two Czechs for every German.

Also, I thought that Hitler wanted Polish participation in a German war against the USSR?

[wm]

In Bohemia but the Sudetenland was almost 100 percent German.

I've never seen any evidence that Hitler planned war with the USSR in 1939, or offered participation to the Poles.
He offered membership in the Anti-Comintern Pact and probably regarded that as a privilege, not a demand.

[Futurist]

In Bohemia but the Sudetenland was almost 100 percent German.

I actually included the Sudetenland in my definition of Bohemia here:

https://external-preview.redd.it/90WSRb ... 5ea37761cf



The Sudetenland as a whole was overwhelmingly Germany, but Bohemia/Czechia as a whole (including the Sudetenland) had about two Czechs for every German. This is quite a different ratio from 50 Poles for every German Danziger or whatever.

I've never seen any evidence that Hitler planned war with the USSR in 1939, or offered participation to the Poles.
He offered membership in the Anti-Comintern Pact and probably regarded that as a privilege, not a demand.

So, membership in the Anti-Comintern Pact would NOT have meant war with the Soviet Union on Poland's part?

[wm]

The Anti-Comintern Pact was directed against the Comintern, a criminal organization that spread terror, destabilized countries, fostered revolutions. It wasn't really directed at the USSR.

If Danzig is part of Poland then we should compare the German population of Danzig with all the Poles, not only Poles in Danzig.

[Futurist]

The Anti-Comintern Pact was directed against the Comintern, a criminal organization that spread terror, destabilized countries, fostered revolutions. It wasn't really directed at the USSR.

But the USSR was in charge of the Comintern, no?

If Danzig is part of Poland then we should compare the German population of Danzig with all the Poles, not only Poles in Danzig.

That's what I've already been doing here!

[wm]

The USSR ran the show in Korea and Vietnam but didn't directly take part in the war.
Similarily the Comintern was directed by Stalin but it wasn't a casus belli.