Is it true that a large part of Lodz's German population was expelled in or around 1918?

[gebhk]

Not necessarily - although some clearly did. I would suggest the mainstream believed in international co-operation for the benefit of all.

[Sid Guttridge]

According to the 1931 Polish census, 9% (54,000) of the population of Lodz were Germans.

I can find no figure for comparison in the 1921 Polish census.

Has anyone got the 1921 figures?

We also need the figures for the last pre-WWI Imperial Russian census for comparison.

Without them, it is difficult to answer the original question.

Cheers,

Sid.

[GregSingh]

Data for 1921 printed in 1923. We have both religion and nationality. For Łódź (town) I see 49530 Protestants and 31546 Germans.

[gebhk]

Hi Sid

Kochanowski (2000) gives the figure of 18% of 522,518 in 1913. However I am not sure if the 522,518 is the figure for Lodz Town only or includes surrounding areas. The population drop during WW1 is said to be significant so the figure may well be for Lodz Town only.

UInfortunately I don't think peacetime census are going to be much help here, even if we ignore the reliability issues of the 1921 census. The Russians evacuated a swathe of industry eastwards from Poland in 1914 and, being pre-eminent in the industry of Lodz, itself an industry-heavy town, it is not unreasonable to assume that disproportionately large numbers of Germans were evacuated as part of this exercise. To take their place, as the Russians were driven back, new Germans arrived in large numbers from Germany to form the military garrison and occupation administration. They remained there until November 1918 when they were politely (or not so politely) asked to leave by the authorities of the emerging Polish State. They went home (? all - probably not) between 12-20 November. Clearly, however, this is an entirely different kettle of fish to an expulsion of residents that is implied in the title.

[wm]

I've previously read that Polish workers during this time were actually rather nationalistic; is this true?

Communist propaganda was highly effective and used nationalism to its advantage. I think it was more like that Catholicism immunized them against communism.
Łódź and Kraków were like New York, both were inherently liberal and leftist.

Did internationalist-minded workers want a one-world government?

I don't think they cared about it. The elites, intellectuals, scientists wanted that, common people didn't give a damn.

[Futurist]

According to the 1931 Polish census, 9% (54,000) of the population of Lodz were Germans.

I can find no figure for comparison in the 1921 Polish census.

Has anyone got the 1921 figures?

We also need the figures for the last pre-WWI Imperial Russian census for comparison.

Without them, it is difficult to answer the original question.

Cheers,

Sid.

In Lodz uyezd in 1897, there were almost 100,000 Germans, or 22.6% of the total population:

https://datatowel.in.ua/pop-composition ... ensus-1897

Use Google Translate and see the data on this interactive map for yourself, if you want. It's in Ukrainian, apparently.

[Futurist]

I've previously read that Polish workers during this time were actually rather nationalistic; is this true?

Communist propaganda was highly effective and used nationalism to its advantage. I think it was more like that Catholicism immunized them against communism.
Łódź and Kraków were like New York, both were inherently liberal and leftist.

What about Warsaw?

Did internationalist-minded workers want a one-world government?

I don't think they cared about it. The elites, intellectuals, scientists wanted that, common people didn't give a damn.

Gotcha. Also, wouldn't a one-world government carry the risk of global tyranny due to the lack of exit options?

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Guys,

Accepting that the sources are different and that we are unclear whether some of them are for the city of province, we have the following:

1897 - "almost 100,000"
1913 - 94,053
1921 - 48,485
1931 - 54,000

This implies a major loss of German population immediately after WWI, but a small consolidation during the 1920s.

So it appears we are dealing with a real phenomenon, even if we can't describe it with precision.

Cheers,

Sid.

[Futurist]

Where did you get the 1913 data from, Sid?

[Futurist]

Not necessarily - although some clearly did. I would suggest the mainstream believed in international co-operation for the benefit of all.

International cooperation but with separate independent countries?

[wm]

Gotcha. Also, wouldn't a one-world government carry the risk of global tyranny due to the lack of exit options?

A one-world government guarantees eventual totalitarianism.
It's monoculture against multi-culture. Biology, Darwinism consider monoculture deadly.

[Futurist]

Gotcha. Also, wouldn't a one-world government carry the risk of global tyranny due to the lack of exit options?

A one-world government guarantees eventual totalitarianism.
It's monoculture against multi-culture. Biology, Darwinism consider monoculture deadly.

That, and the lack of exit options in a one-world government. Indeed, this specifically was a point made by libertarian US law professor Ilya Somin.

[wm]

Where did you get the 1913 data from, Sid?

Lots of Germans and Jews (especially officials) preferred to move to Germany than to stay in Łódź (or in Poland.)

[Futurist]

Where did you get the 1913 data from, Sid?

Lots of Germans and Jews (especially officials) preferred to move to Germany than to stay in Łódź (or in Poland.)

Interesting, but this doesn't actually answer my question here.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Futurist,

From crunching the numbers in gebhk's last post.

Cheers,

Sid.