Were Polish Red Army soldiers traitors?

Discussions on all aspects of Poland during the Second Polish Republic and the Second World War. Hosted by Peter K
Davey Boy
Member
Posts: 1504
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 13:51
Location: Australia

Post by Davey Boy » 14 Jul 2003 14:32

VeleV wrote:Sure Poland was under occupation and when a German soldier got killed they killed Poles for it but people in Warsaw lived normally!
They did not fear when walking the streets, they had jobs, went to stores, went for coffee, celebrated Christmass normally - ofcourse there were RESTRICTIONS....German districts, Street cars had special GERMAN ONLY seating, Police Hour came in so you couldnt be out past 9 (not all the time!!)

But to say that if you lived a good life you had to be a 'cooliberator' is simply lying!

The Pope worked in a chemical factory during the war was he also a traitor because he made money?

Poles did not fear Germans - Poles feared Russians.



I think you're insane.

Have you heard of the mass executions in the Kampinos forest near Warsaw AT THE START OF THE WAR.

And there were many such executions throughout Poland.

People who the Nazis THOUGHT might cause trouble, like doctors, professors and journalists, were shot.

Quite a few Varsovians were lost this way years before the uprising.

The hell are you on about, you fool?

Davey Boy
Member
Posts: 1504
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 13:51
Location: Australia

Post by Davey Boy » 14 Jul 2003 14:36

Do some real reading then debate me...

http://www.ushmm.org/education/resource/poles/poles.pdf

User avatar
David C. Clarke
Member
Posts: 11368
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 17:17
Location: U.S. of A.

Post by David C. Clarke » 14 Jul 2003 15:26

Okay Guys, let's keep this debate civil. I realize it is an emotional issue.

By the way, I always thought Nazi policy was to exterminate as much of the Polish intelligentsia as possible, while extracting incredibly severe reprisals ( mass executions) when confronted by Polish resistance.

Regards,
~D

User avatar
Germanica
Member
Posts: 93
Joined: 06 Jun 2003 21:59
Location: England, UK

Post by Germanica » 14 Jul 2003 15:57

The Poles who fought under the banner of the Red Army were not, in my view traitors, because their decision to fight was out of patriotism for their nation. I do not believe the first and foremost thought in their minds was how great Poland would be under the Bolshevik jackboot. The Poles also had slight degrees of independence, if I remember correctly. They were not completely absorbed into the yolk of the Red Army, and still bore the Polish coat of arms on their uniform. Traitors? No. Misguided? Yes. Little did they know their "hosts" in Moscow had little thought of establishing a free and independent Poland.

User avatar
Ogorek
Member
Posts: 736
Joined: 17 May 2002 23:23
Location: USA

Post by Ogorek » 14 Jul 2003 17:34

People seem to be forgetting a few things.... After Anders left the Soviet Union, the only alternative for Poles there was to remain in the Gulag, or be conscripted into the Red Army.

After the Berling Army came into Poland, masses of Poles were conscripted - despite what a certain member has written, life under German occupation was not "normal" - Poles were imprisoned, exceuted, conscripted for slave labor, and suffered terribly - for many, after liberation, putting on a uniform and marching toward Berlin was retribution.

Many members of the LWP were not political - least off all many rank and file members of the AK - who were conscripted after their officers were shot or imprisoned.

Being a traitor for serving the Soviet backed Polish forces? Little or no choice - much the same as the millions of Poles had living under Communism.

User avatar
Leica
Member
Posts: 88
Joined: 18 Jun 2003 09:37
Location: Deutschland

Post by Leica » 14 Jul 2003 20:20

Davey Boy wrote:
VeleV wrote:Sure Poland was under occupation and when a German soldier got killed they killed Poles for it but people in Warsaw lived normally!
They did not fear when walking the streets, they had jobs, went to stores, went for coffee, celebrated Christmass normally - ofcourse there were RESTRICTIONS....German districts, Street cars had special GERMAN ONLY seating, Police Hour came in so you couldnt be out past 9 (not all the time!!)

But to say that if you lived a good life you had to be a 'cooliberator' is simply lying!

The Pope worked in a chemical factory during the war was he also a traitor because he made money?

Poles did not fear Germans - Poles feared Russians.



I think you're insane.

Have you heard of the mass executions in the Kampinos forest near Warsaw AT THE START OF THE WAR.

And there were many such executions throughout Poland.

People who the Nazis THOUGHT might cause trouble, like doctors, professors and journalists, were shot.

Quite a few Varsovians were lost this way years before the uprising.

The hell are you on about, you fool?


Insane because he does not share you world of hate against germans? You are a crazy little guy, Wesolowski. Do some research and come back.

User avatar
David C. Clarke
Member
Posts: 11368
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 17:17
Location: U.S. of A.

Post by David C. Clarke » 14 Jul 2003 20:25

Leica, knock it off! There's no cause for you to be insulting. We're trying to keep this Thread civil.

Regards,
~D

VeleV
Banned
Posts: 159
Joined: 11 Jun 2003 01:12
Location: Canada, Toronto

Post by VeleV » 14 Jul 2003 20:32

Say what you want!
I am not some lover of Germans but I also have German background but to lie because you have been taught to hate Germans by idiot Polish socialists is just idiotic!

Both caused Poland harm and to a greater extent - who did Katyn my little friend? Maybe Germans dressed in Soviet uniforms?!

Shame to Poland you are.

User avatar
David C. Clarke
Member
Posts: 11368
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 17:17
Location: U.S. of A.

Post by David C. Clarke » 14 Jul 2003 20:46

Guys, I really don't want to close this Thread, but I will unless you stop making personal insults against each other. Please.


Regards,
~D

Kaan Caglar
Member
Posts: 2136
Joined: 10 Jul 2003 23:14
Location: Izmir,Turkey

Post by Kaan Caglar » 15 Jul 2003 00:29

Admit that the poles are one of the most unlucky nations in the world, gee first the nazis then the reds come to their lands kill anyone they like, take anything they want...
They didn't know how the communists were really like, if they did they wouldn't join the reds i guess...
Be cause the world agrees that the reds were much more evil then the nazis... At least stalin was...
No they were not traitors, they were turned blind by the hate that grew inside them...
Yes the life under nazi occupation may be hard may be horrible, but no different then the life under the communists :roll:

VeleV
Banned
Posts: 159
Joined: 11 Jun 2003 01:12
Location: Canada, Toronto

Post by VeleV » 15 Jul 2003 00:40

_KaaN_ wrote:Yes the life under nazi occupation may be hard may be horrible, but no different then the life under the communists :roll:


That must be one of the most unresearched statements I have ever read!
Nazi rule only lasted a few years while the red's still rule Poland till this day - starting from our judges and justice officals ending on our President - all ex commies.

Nothing has caused Poland more heartache and devestation then the rape treatment of socialism.

Kaan Caglar
Member
Posts: 2136
Joined: 10 Jul 2003 23:14
Location: Izmir,Turkey

Post by Kaan Caglar » 15 Jul 2003 01:14

Dear VeleV
we are defending the same thing,telling that socialists caused more harm, and they were much more evil...
Don't think i didn't research, i did and found out that while the reds(Mao,Stalin,Lenin and the others) were at the helm in their countries, they killed a population of Turkey!!!(70 million)
so starting from 1917-1990, its 73 years ,70/73=0,9..
The reds killed a million of people per year!!

Davey Boy
Member
Posts: 1504
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 13:51
Location: Australia

Post by Davey Boy » 15 Jul 2003 03:15

VeleV wrote:Say what you want!
I am not some lover of Germans but I also have German background but to lie because you have been taught to hate Germans by idiot Polish socialists is just idiotic!

Both caused Poland harm and to a greater extent - who did Katyn my little friend? Maybe Germans dressed in Soviet uniforms?!

Shame to Poland you are.



Fantastic, I'm debating some Volksdeutsche here.

Ok, prove to me that the following did not happen:

Executions of Polish intellectuals

Warsaw being flattened to the ground

Germans destroying some 300 Polish villages

Forced Germanization of Polish kids

More than 2,000,000 Polish catholics dead (most civillians)


Are you saying these are all lies? That the evidence has been manufactured?

Do you have proof of this? Or is the best you can do "my grandma told me so"?
Last edited by Davey Boy on 15 Jul 2003 03:22, edited 1 time in total.

Davey Boy
Member
Posts: 1504
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 13:51
Location: Australia

Post by Davey Boy » 15 Jul 2003 03:21

Leica wrote:
Insane because he does not share you world of hate against germans? You are a crazy little guy, Wesolowski. Do some research and come back.



I have done plenty of reading. Have you?

Go through this document and prove to me that it's wrong. If you can't, then what't there to debate?

http://www.ushmm.org/education/resource/poles/poles.pdf

VeleV
Banned
Posts: 159
Joined: 11 Jun 2003 01:12
Location: Canada, Toronto

Post by VeleV » 15 Jul 2003 03:29

Davey Boy wrote:
VeleV wrote:Say what you want!
I am not some lover of Germans but I also have German background but to lie because you have been taught to hate Germans by idiot Polish socialists is just idiotic!

Both caused Poland harm and to a greater extent - who did Katyn my little friend? Maybe Germans dressed in Soviet uniforms?!

Shame to Poland you are.



Fantastic, I'm debating some Volksdeutsche here.

Ok, prove to me that the following did not happen:

Executions of Polish intellectuals

Warsaw being flattened to the ground

Germans destroying some 300 Polish villages

Forced Germanization of Polish kids

More than 2,000,000 Polish catholics dead (most civillians)


Are you saying these are all lies? That the evidence has been manufactured?

Do you have proof of this? Or is the best you can do "my grandma told me so"?



1. Where we talking about normal life going on in Warsaw or intellectuals being killed?

2. Warsaw was flattened to the ground in the uprising check your date genius?

3. 300 villages are you sure it wasnt 301? How many did Russians destroy?

4. Forced Germanization has been going on the same way Forced Pollackification of the Eastern lands.

5. 2 million catholics dead indeed but were Germans the only ones killing Catholics? Did you forget the Soviets did not tolerate the church?

And I have no idea why your bringing up things that no one can deny!
I was talking about life in Warsaw being perfectly intact! and it was!

And what is it with the insults towards the Germans?
Propaganda since the day you were born?

Return to “Poland 1919-1945”