Warsaw Uprising 1944

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Oleg Grigoryev
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#16

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 15 May 2004, 20:28

“sooner or later” Warsaw had to be taken by Stalin’s forces. If one plans to take over a nation, the capital city is a logical objective.
Yes it would –as result prepared well planned offensive and not some idiotic life-wasting jump.
First, I am not defending AK decision to fight, nor their misplaced hope in receiving help from the West. But this was the AK plan all along – an armed uprising against the German occupier, for better or for worse
well if did not counted on Soviet support I don’t exactly see how can accuse Soviets of anything. Nor could outcome be any different – the idea that lightly armed partisans could hold a city against regular army was preposterous.
Second, the decision to fight was intended to stake a claim to Warsaw on behalf of the LEGITIMATE London based Polish government, not the puppet Soviet government. Therefore, why would the Poles ally themselves with imposters? The AK was counting on support from the west, not “half assed” (if only they received that much) Soviet support. The Soviet so called “allies” were single mindedly bent on the domination of Poland.
really? What kind of support - a dozen of armored division falling from the sky? Because short of that nothing would save the upspring. WA understood it well –btw-they were bombarding Soviet High command with requests that the later by some miracle invaded Warsaw –miracle was impossible, and ones again why on Earth would Soviet Army support people that even prior to that was killing its soldiers to say nothing about after.
Once again, a calculated tactic designed to prolong the conflict for Soviet advantage.
The design was hardly calculated since Soviet High command had no note of upcoming uprising and consequently could not calculate anything. That said what kind of logic is that – they don’t allow airdrops –bad –they letting Germans slaughter unarmed poles, they allow airdrop –also bad –they enable Poles thus given Germans the reason to kill more Poles. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Drops of German ammo – I can hear the cries of “danke schein” from the German side.
Unlike WA airdrops which were conducted from the height of 4.5 kilometers and thus only by chance could be picked insurgents Soviet airdrops were conducted from virtually roof level and most of them landed exactly there they were suppose to. As for ammunition – 9x19mm was used in both British Stans and German MP-40, and AK was armed by far was armed with captured German weapons anyway - but like said before VVS was dropping ammo and weapons to shoot it from.
Agreed - most of the air drops by the Brits / Americans did not hit their intended targets. But their motive was one of assistance. The Soviet’s was not. If the Soviets wanted to help they would have allowed use of their air fields. Is this too hard to understand?
Helped whom – Germans? More rides would only mean more supplies falling into the German hands. The whole high –altitude airdrop idea was absolutely senseless and as such was intended for domestic political consumption. Brits btw agreed that the whole uprising was ill conceived.
What!? Oh yeah – ol’ Uncle Joe was very concerned about the Poles and their desire for a free and independent homeland. Of course the Poles were openly hostile to him. And well before they knew the truth about Katyn.
So you are accusing Soviets of providing not enough support to the hostile movement? Well is not that mighty big of you. You know at least there was Poland under Soviets –there were none under Germans, and if you dislike everything Soviet so much –why don’t you start movement for return of Silesia to Germany- after all it was them cruel Soviets that gave it to Poles.
Regardless, even one murdered Pole fighting for a free homeland is just that - murder.
Not if they are killing Soveit personnel which they did.
And your assertion that the OUB and UPA - a mob of undisciplined drunken punks whose claim to fame was the sadistic slaughter of defenseless women and children - significantly depleted the AK ranks, well - I can't say it any better than you: "oh please".
It is not an assertion it is statement of fact, and it is not like AK did not repay in kind.

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#17

Post by Liluh » 15 May 2004, 21:59

panzermahn wrote:Thanks for sharing with us the pictures, Liluh..

but how were this pictures taken and smuggled out?
Ha, good question. Most pictures were made by some AK (Home Army) members, or at least civilians with cameras. AK had some nice press service, they did print some papers during the uprising. I`m not quite sure how did all these pictures preveil, mostl likely some were hidden and recovered later, some were confiscated by germans and some other smuggled through to the oflags and end of the war (actually, I know an event when 5 men dismounted and took each part of STEN submachine gun while a dozen of others took single bullet - everything was succesfully smuggled into the oflag. I`m not sure if it was used, but the fact is - sth like that was absolutelly possible).
I`ll have a look at the resources and I`ll post some more info soon.

Of course, there were a lot of german military press crews, so their part of photographic work isn`t necessary to verify.


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Steve
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#18

Post by Steve » 15 May 2004, 22:23

Mikolajczyk did not inform Churchill of the planned uprising at their meeting of 25 July. On the 27 July Count Raczyinski had talks with Anthony Eden who told him Warsaw was outside the range of British bombers and flights terminating on Soviet airfields were exclusively an American operation. On the 28 July a formal British reply said no to the type of assistance requested for an uprising in Warsaw.

The London Poles enpowered their delegate in Poland Jankowski on the 25 July to take decisions over the progress of the Soviets without reference to London. On the 26 July Mikolajczyk authorised Jankowski to "proclaim the uprising at the time chosen by you". The opinion of the Polish C-in-C in the west Sosnkowski expressed on the 30 July was "the uprising depended on British assistance". The question arises did Jankowski know there would be no British assistance prior to the uprising maybe someone knows ?.

Mikolajczyk met Molotov in Moscow on the 31 July when it seems he brought up with the Soviets for the first time the uprising and recieved a noncommittal answer. It was not till August 3 that Mikolajczyk was able to discuss the rising with Stalin. Bierut chairman of the communist National Committee who had supposedly left Warsaw on August 4 attended a meeting with the London Poles on August 7 and interestingly claimed to have seen no sign of an uprising.

It seems fairly certain no one apart from the AK in Warsaw knew the date of the uprising. As a previous poster has shown the Soviet forces were not in a position to liberate Warsaw but because this uprising was aimed at preventing Soviet control of the capital there could be no liason and the Poles made assumptions on the Soviet advance. Britain had told the Poles there would be no help and even with help it clearly could not be sufficient to hold Warsaw for long. The broadcasts calling on the Poles to revolt are often cited as a reason but I cannot believe that broadcasts on a communist radio station would have influenced the AK command. It is obvious that had the Germans not eliminated the AK forces in Warsaw the Soviets would have done so in the future.


Mostly taken from: The Road To Berlin - John Erickson.

"I wanted much I attempted much but the wind of the world blew me and my work away" Draza Mihailovic

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#19

Post by Liluh » 15 May 2004, 22:49

Benoit Douville wrote:Liluh,

That's a very interesting and tragic story. What do you think about that Battle? Do you think it was necessary?

I think the Poles fought bravely and I have a lot respect for them to fight against the occupied Germans. If they had won the Battle, they would have been in better postion to negotiate with the Soviets.

Regards

It was very sad (although beautifull from its plain bravery and heroism) and tragic in its outcome, it also weakened polish opposition during late 40`s.

I don`t think it was necessary (even though the basic assumptions were correct), even more, I think it was quite foolish, badly planned and hastily made.

First of all, the uprising was a direct outcome of modified plan "Burza" (The Storm). This plan intended to:

- take land after, or from, retreating german troops
- disarm these troops or/and gather all the military stuff they left behind leaving in haste
- estabilish local goverment under the control of Polish gov. in exile
- estabilish administration, togheter with creating police units which would bring law and order on the shattered battle grounds
- reopen and start factory facalities
- defend polish civilians from Ukrainians
- finally, recreate AK as an Polish Army in full meaning of this word

The plan covered all terrains which before the war were called the II Republic of Poland. It was prepared in late 1942. Soviets were still considered as more or less friendly (even though the invasion on 17th sept. 1939). Polish HQ expected Germans to loose in Russia, and while German forces would back up, the uprising would be initiated in several sectors starting from the east and finally rising in whole country.

Then, in 1943 luck wasn`t at polish side. Gen. "Grot" (Rowecki) had been arrested by Gestapo and in an airplane accident (sources are not clear what really happend) High Command gen. Sikorski got killed. It was a heavy strike to the polish command. Both of them were very intelligent and charismatic characters. Both had a good grip on the reality and if anyone, they were right men to lead "Burza" to victory. Those who took over weren`t that keen, neither they had a deep insight on the world policy and situation, therefore, loosing the grip on reality. More over, Germans found massive graves in Katyn and accused Russians. Relations between Poles and Soviets became even more cold.

Now, as the basic plan had a good chance of succeding - AK counted even 500.000 members (!) at the best time - it had been modified by head gen. Komorowski "Bor", which as a hardened cavarlyman knew how to charge with a batalion of horsmen, but had no idea about guerilla warfare. There`s more on that, as he was a weak man and often agreed for the mad plans of his second rate officers. Let`s leave that now though.
"Burza" launched in early 1944. AK liberated Wilno, Lwow (quite big cities) and even cooperated with Soviets. Only that just after liberating all AK members were arrested and put before a choice: either, they`ll join Berling Army, or they`ll be sent to Siberia. Now everyone knew the real intentions of Soviets.

"Bor" decided to include Warsaw in the uprising ("Grot" never intended that, he knew the real value of the capitol and didn`t want to weaken it in any way. More over, he knew urban warfare was a difficult task where AK wouldn`t have much chance - in comparision to forest fighting where it had genuine advantage over Germans). He thought that Warsaw, as the heart of Poland, shouldn`t fall into Soviet hands becouse if it will, all efforts to estabilish polish government would fail. He was partially right. Both Hitler and Stalin hated that city. It was the main base of the high command and all guerilla efforts. Still, "Bor" planned to use Soviet assualt as a help to deal with Germans. He guessed, large polish force in the capitol couldn`t be quietly removed like the liberators of Wilno or Lwow. The way for negotiations would be open.

Plan to liberate Warsaw was created in great haste. There were not enough units in the area and their equippment was unpropriate for the tasks they were given. Neither they were told how to fight in the city (so, obviously, first troops ran in long lines through the open streets like they would run between trees and bushes in a forest until they got slaughterned with machine gun fire). "Grot" Rowecki knew all that, but heck, he was already dead by then.

AK failed to accomplish most important tasks of the first days of uprising. They didn`t hold the bridge (4 of them actually, later all were blown by Germans preventing Soviet crossing), railway depot (which bringed german reinf and supplies considerably quicklym and home base of train artillery), airplane base (where Ju-88 planes had its base) and more, succeding only in some minor attacks. Even then it wasn`t too late to retreat, but "Bor" was a stubborn men. More and more units were pulled into the city. Even though heroic efforts of those men, we know the end of this history. If all of them had the experience in the first days, they had in the end of uprising, they would propably succed in majority of efforts.
After the death of Warsaw whole "Burza" plan had been suspended. AK was heavily damaged in its structures. "Bor" not only (not directly or on purpose of course) destroyed Warsaw, but also put some ground with a shovel upon it`s country coiff. The more tragic history it is.

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#20

Post by Liluh » 15 May 2004, 23:24

What not quite? Capture of Warsaw was not a part of “Bagrtion” – Rokossvkiy far prior to the arrival his forces to Vistula reported that basically no chance in hell that he capture Warsaw on the move.

You have too narrow view of the situation. You see it with eyes of those soviet soldiers who were standing on the eastern coast of Warsaw watching how it burns and for some reasons couldn`t do much, it was not in their hands to decide about policy.

If bridges on Vistula in Warsaw wouldn`t get blown, even if only one would prevails, Soviets would cross it at once, isn`t that correct?

In my opinion - no. Stalin knew the value of Warsaw, but had a different perspective. He knew how good it will be for his policy to see it burn. Poles killed Germans, Germans killed Poles, enemy capitol goes down, polish elite dies, 9th German Army is seriously weakened not to mention it`s forces are tied in the uprising while it could succesfully counterattack northwest. There was no need for him to rush with rescue for his enemies. You`re right. He knew that, Poles knew - BUT, we are being to sarcastic here, remember that Russia was an offical Ally, war friend of Brits and Americans, who were friends to Poles. Your friend is our friend says the sentence. From officiall state of policy, even from any othe point of view there was absolutelly no reason why he didn`t let his allies planes to land in his airfields, just as he didn`t let cover Berlings assualt with artylery - which was purely suicidal without it. Point goes to the old commie Berling and his poor boys for that.
Stalin had perfect knowledge of the upcoming uprising.


And if they permitted Poles would held Warsaw for several months? Please AK has only itself to blame –if it really wanted to capture Warsaw it would have coordinated with the Red Army and it did not. Did the AK command thought about Soviet soldiers who would have needlessly died in support of their half-assed badly planed attempt for capture?

You`re exageratting. Too many communistic books read, my friend?;)

Look at Wilno and Lwow. Somehow nothing stopped Soviets from cooperating there. Oh, sorry, I guess they didn`t know about the uprising there aswell?

Honestly, if Red Army would still continue with heavy assualt as they did before Germans wouldn`t have time to send over 50.000 troops to support fights in Warsaw.

You`re free to pass on the numbers and outcome of battles which happend during these two months between Red Army and 9th German Army.
I`m pretty eager to read them.


Without support of the Red Army German victory was certain –period no airdrops would help. Btw the airdrop that did take place –most of the equipment fell into German hands and was later used against Red Army –thank you very much.


It would. As I mentioned already, before Allied planes reached drop areas it was already retaken by the Germans. When Poles counter striked and took it again, another wave of planes didn`t reach the area in time and so it went like in mad wheel. Have in mind they flew from Italy. Before AK HQ made it to send msg to Allied HQ about the situation several days passed, in best case. How easier it would be to drop the msg on the eastern side of Vistula and pass it to bombers waiting in Russian airfields just 100 or even 500km away. Red Army can blame only theirselfs that what Americans and Brits dropped was used against them. That was little price for Stalin anyway, he never cared for life of his troops.

VVS was dropping both weapons and ammo for them, and it was droping German ammo as well – I do have report with all quantities and such.

Please give it.

The Soviet intent, of course, was not so much to aid the Poles but to prolong the conflict and thus weaken both the Germans and the Poles to Soviet advantage
and airdrops by allies would cause different effect?

Yup. Check my other posts please.

With the Germans eventually defeated there were almost no forces* left to oppose Soviet political domination in Poland. Gotta give credit to Stalin – he knew what he was doing.


I don’t think he was –he spent hell of lot resources supporting the uprising that was openly hostile to him.


Not really. I really mean, he didn`t spend much. You mentioned yourself that he didn`t want to support his enemy - Poles. How could he spend countless resources for them? You`re free to prove me wrong though.


the resistance that remained was systematically hunted down slaughtered by the Soviets in the years following the "great Allied victory" in 1945. The horrors of war continued on the blood soaked Polish soil.
Oh please.. most of AK was hunted down by Bandera boys – number captured by Soviets was insignificant (and yes I do have numbers).[/quote]

Yeah, right. Wilno - Lwow, around 20.000 of AK members in Red Army captivity, either forced to join Berling or on a trip to some cold vacations in deep Russia. What happend is the similiar to 1939. Poles could deal with Germans, couldn`t deal with both Germans and NKVD, at least not for long. If you`re interested in how many AK members lost lives and got imprisoned from 1945 to 1947, just let me know.

And about UPA. You seem to accuse AK of murdering Ukrainians? As a comparision, one, self-decided attack of kpt. Filipkowski bringed dead to over 800 UPA member from which not more than 10% were civilians. That`s the only official attack of AK after UPA massacres. UPA killed, or rather murdered over 40.000 of polish civilians. They burned whole villages for Gods sake and only thing AK did was try to defend their lands and families!

Image

OUN-UPA "proud" creation. And you`d propably tap such murderers shoulder and ask - "Sir? Can you please stop?"? Don`t be ridiclouse in your assumptions as they seem to be based on false facts.

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Oleg Grigoryev
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#21

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 16 May 2004, 01:34

You have too narrow view of the situation. You see it with eyes of those soviet soldiers who were standing on the eastern coast of Warsaw watching how it burns and for some reasons couldn`t do much, it was not in their hands to decide about policy.
I see it from the operational point of view Soviet forces were tired, the stocks were depleted and ones again Warsaw was not listed as operational goal for Bagration - the possibility of capture Warsaw was contemplated –it was thought possible provided that set of preliminary objectives would be secured on time. They were not, which pretty much doomed the whole thing.
If bridges on Vistula in Warsaw wouldn`t get blown, even if only one would prevails, Soviets would cross it at once, isn`t that correct?
–provided that they could hold it with what they have –why not?
In my opinion - no. Stalin knew the value of Warsaw, but had a different perspective. He knew how good it will be for his policy to see it burn. Poles killed Germans, Germans killed Poles, enemy capitol goes down, polish elite dies, 9th German Army is seriously weakened not to mention it`s forces are tied in the uprising while it could succesfully counterattack northwest. There was no need for him to rush with rescue for his enemies. You`re right. He knew that, Poles knew - BUT, we are being to sarcastic here, remember that Russia was an offical Ally, war friend of Brits and Americans, who were friends to Poles.
So called friends could not care less for Poles –as they have so clearly showed in 1939, and as far as Brits were concerned Poles were the constant sort of irritation since they provided constant source of friction between the USSR and GB.
Your friend is our friend says the sentence.
Like you just said you were AK was never USSR friend –it was not even neutral towards USSR –they were outright hostile.
From officiall state of policy, even from any othe point of view there was absolutelly no reason why he didn`t let his allies planes to land in his airfields,
other than large chunk of supplies ending in German hands?
just as he didn`t let cover Berlings assualt with artylery - which was purely suicidal without it.
Berling was not covered with artillery? That gotta be some new discovery. Berling had 330 barrels per-kilometer covering the crossing. That is either one canon or mortar for every 3 meters –hardly gets any denser than that. The reasons he failed were a) he failed to reinforce bridgehead fast enough b) he did not secure the flanks.
Point goes to the old commie Berling and his poor boys for that.
Half of which were Soviet transfers.
Stalin had perfect knowledge of the upcoming uprising.
Really? Any attempt to coordinate with General Staff on the part of the AK then?
You`re exageratting. Too many communistic books read, my friend?
Where exactly am I exaggerating?
Look at Wilno and Lwow. Somehow nothing stopped Soviets from cooperating there. Oh, sorry, I guess they didn`t know about the uprising there aswell?
Both Lwow and Vilno were initially set as goals for offensives with consequent resources allotted to them –they would have been captured with or without Polish uprisings.
Honestly, if Red Army would still continue with heavy assualt as they did before Germans wouldn`t have time to send over 50.000 troops to support fights in Warsaw.
But that is exactly the thing Red Army extended its communication lines beyond mark when it could launch another major operation which would be the capture of Warsaw.
You`re free to pass on the numbers and outcome of battles which happend during these two months between Red Army and 9th German Army.
I`m pretty eager to read them.
what you want causality figure for Bagration?
It would.
How AK would have hold Warsaw till November? As I mentioned already, before Allied planes reached drop areas it was already retaken by the Germans. When Poles counter striked and took it again, another wave of planes didn`t reach the area in time and so it went like in mad wheel. Have in mind they flew from Italy. Before AK HQ made it to send msg to Allied HQ about the situation several days passed, in best case. How easier it would be to drop the msg on the eastern side of Vistula and pass it to bombers waiting in Russian airfields just 100 or even 500km away. Red Army can blame only theirselfs that what Americans and Brits dropped was used against them. That was little price for Stalin anyway, he never cared for life of his troops.[/quote] No Red Army has to blame AK for failure to coordinate and consequently uselessly spilled blood. Why was no attempt made to communicate with Soviet General Staff? Would it be really to difficult to wait till red army would brink all the equipment and supplies it needed to launch proper offensive and then start the uprising? It is very simple idea –why nothing was done?
Please give it.
4821 combat sortie -among them 1361 close fire support missions on direct request from insurgents.
Submachine guns -1478
Mortars -50mm -156
AT rifles – 505
Russian rifles – 170
German rifles – 350
Carbines – 669
50mm mortar rounds – 37216
rifle rounds – 1312600
TT rounds – 1360984
Rounds for ATRs – 57640
7.7mm rounds – 75000
“mauser” rounds -260000
9x19 – 312760
grenades – 18428
German grenades - 18270
Medical supplies 515 kg
Filed Telephones -10
Switchboards – 1
Spare parts -10
Batteries -22
Cable 9600 m
Foodstuffs 131221 kg
45mm AT canon -1
45mm ammo - 300
Yup. Check my other posts please
I checked there is nothing to support you claim.
Not really. I really mean, he didn`t spend much. You mentioned yourself that he didn`t want to support his enemy - Poles. How could he spend countless resources for them? You`re free to prove me wrong though.
I did not said countless but one can see that it was not “nothing” exactly
Yeah, right. Wilno - Lwow, around 20.000 of AK members in Red Army captivity, either forced to join Berling or on a trip to some cold vacations in deep Russia. What happend is the similiar to 1939. Poles could deal with Germans, couldn`t deal with both Germans and NKVD, at least not for long. If you`re interested in how many AK members lost lives and got imprisoned from 1945 to 1947, just let me know.
I know. I know how many when and where and it is not comparable to 1939.
And about UPA. You seem to accuse AK of murdering Ukrainians? As a comparision, one, self-decided attack of kpt. Filipkowski bringed dead to over 800 UPA member from which not more than 10% were civilians. That`s the only official attack of AK after UPA massacres. UPA killed, or rather murdered over 40.000 of polish civilians. They burned whole villages for Gods sake and only thing AK did was try to defend their lands and families!
Now I accused UPA and AK killing each other and the civilians among them and I can give at least one more account of massacre perpetrated by AK.

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#22

Post by mchmiel74 » 28 May 2004, 17:55

Image
soldiers from AK Batalion "Parasol" (Umbrella)
Image
polish Underground Army's propaganda poster "Kazdy pocisk , jeden Niemiec" means "Each round - one German"

Image
Warsaw insurgent's after heavy fighting in Old Town

Image
Kedyw ( sabotage management)"Kolegium A" - Wola discrict

Image
2nd leutnant "Jur" - Jerzy Siwiec is throwing grenade

Image
Lt. "Aspira" is showing banner from killed SS - soldier (Viking)

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#23

Post by Fredd » 29 May 2004, 10:30

Oleg you wrote
Like you just said you were AK was never USSR friend –it was not even neutral towards USSR –they were outright hostile
And why the AK should have been USSR friend - because of Katyn maybe :x Or maybe because of the invasion which took place 17th september 1939 and subsequent murders, looting, deportations?

And Oleg you are wrong when saying Soviets didn't hunt former soldiers of AK down. Actually they did, NKVD and Smiersz call them traitors, nazi spys and so on - when they were lucky they were deported to Siberia.

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#24

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 30 May 2004, 05:51

Nobody says that they should, but one cannot have both ways -hate someone and at the same time bittching that this someone did not help him.

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#25

Post by szopen » 01 Jun 2004, 08:59

Oleg Grigoryev wrote:Nobody says that they should, but one cannot have both ways -hate someone and at the same time bittching that this someone did not help him.
Unless of course, he would earlier urged you that you will start uprising (Soviet radios were calling Poles from Warsaw to Uprising earlier, let me remind you).

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#26

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 01 Jun 2004, 10:32

szopen wrote:
Oleg Grigoryev wrote:Nobody says that they should, but one cannot have both ways -hate someone and at the same time bittching that this someone did not help him.
Unless of course, he would earlier urged you that you will start uprising (Soviet radios were calling Poles from Warsaw to Uprising earlier, let me remind you).
the only radiostion doing that was "kostushko'
" and even that was not authorized, if Imay point it to you that was covered in this very thread .

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#27

Post by szopen » 01 Jun 2004, 13:59

Kosciuszko, not Radio Wisla? Well, i saw that you claimed that it was not authorized and people responsible were punished (how?) but inside of Warsaw it nevertheless was seen as official.

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#28

Post by Liluh » 01 Jun 2004, 17:26

As the event of opening the Warsaw Uprising Museum is closer with every day, I had a chat with my grandparents. My grandfather went there to report the death of his uncle during the uprising, as museum gathers all info about deaths and casualties. But nevermind that. You propably noticed the fact that some of the insurgents wear german panther alike uniforms which were obtained during attack on SS warehouse. My grandmother told me that she knew one guy who, togheter with his platoon used such uniforms. One day, one of them cleaned his gun in the basement and the guy I`m speaking of, decided to spook his friend by jumping in there shouting "Hende hoch!". He did that with more success than expected, his friend gasped and without even knowing just quickly reloaded the gun and shoot in the direction where supposed "German" stood. Tragicly enough, he deadly shoot his friend in the belly, as he realised soon after. His friend died in his arms saying, that he shouldn`t blame himself and that it was quite foolish and stupid joke.

I just thought, you`d like to hear such story.

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#29

Post by Oleg Grigoryev » 01 Jun 2004, 21:34

szopen wrote:Kosciuszko, not Radio Wisla? Well, i saw that you claimed that it was not authorized and people responsible were punished (how?) but inside of Warsaw it nevertheless was seen as official.
offical what? Uprisng started not becouse of "Kostushko" but on dirrect order of Polish commander who was given full authority of Governmnet in Excile - pinning it on Sovites will not fly -sorry.

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#30

Post by Liluh » 01 Jun 2004, 21:59

Either you`d like to believe it or not Oleg, Soviet acts, or lets say, Stalins, had a direct impact to the outcome of uprising.

Let`s just say, to make it easy for you, that Red Army was also an enemy, although not an official one (being the Ally in anit-nazi alliance). So insurgents had enemies from both sides, okay? Will it be cool enough?;>

Cheers,

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