Poland and The Weimar Republic

Discussions on all aspects of Poland during the Second Polish Republic and the Second World War. Hosted by Piotr Kapuscinski.
Mad Zeppelin
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#31

Post by Mad Zeppelin » 30 Sep 2004, 22:08

The German plans were in deed to crush the Poles in the Posen province. Fighting in late 1918 and early 1919 had established the fighting line along the Netze/today? river. Now the German gathered their forces, all highly professional volunteers (Freikorps), HQ of Hindenburg was at Kolberg. They were pretty sure to beat the Poles, but when they were ready, the Versailles Treaty gave West Prussia to Poland and the German Government forbade the offensive. Now Hindenburg resigned, also fearing French intervention.
German officers usually were rather surprised that their good comerade Count ....sky, once Oberstleutnant (higher ranks were open to Poles!) and CO of neighbouring battalion, holder of Iron Cross 1st class etc., was now sector commander of Polish forces. Polish soldiers looked like Germans, except for frequent wear of czapkas and red-white ribbons. They were highy regarded by their German opponents as being aggressive, tenacious and well trained - they, in fact, had been trained in the German Army.

szopen
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#32

Post by szopen » 03 Oct 2004, 13:03

Higher ranks were open to Poles? Then why there were no higher officers in Great Poland and they had to imported from Austria and Russia, or quickly updgraded to higher rakn (what's the word in English) after the outbreak?


Mad Zeppelin
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#33

Post by Mad Zeppelin » 03 Oct 2004, 15:51

Well, let's have look at the PLM holders:
- Count Gluszewski-Kwilecki, Colonel
- v. Kuczkowski, Boleslaus, Colonel
- v. Miaskowski, Lieutenant Colonel
- v. Paczynski-Tenczin, Leo, Major General
Sound all definitely Polish to me, I've left out all those which might be Prussians (a lot of whom had names of slavic origin - e.g.: v. Levinksi, v. Lochow etc.).
But of course, people born in the Posen province did not necessarily have Polish names. Ludendorff for example was born near Posen.
And not all people fighting on the Polish side did have very Polish names:
A First Lieutenant Bartsch was CO of Polish forces at Czarnikau, one of his lieutenants was named Zielke.
Colonel von Raczewski was C0 of the Polish Ulan Regiment at Gnesen (became General in Polish Army), had been regimental commander of 16th Hussars at Schleswig.
A certain Count Chlapowski was master of the castle at Posen. He had been reserve officer of the Garde-Kürassiere at Berlin and later royal Prussian chamberlain.

szopen
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#34

Post by szopen » 04 Oct 2004, 09:45

I stand corrected. I will search for those names in my library, since i doubt any of them played any role in Posen Uprising.

Obserwator
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#35

Post by Obserwator » 06 Oct 2004, 15:08

There were many Prussians with Polish sounding names-that doesn't mean they were Poles.

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Fredd
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#36

Post by Fredd » 08 Oct 2004, 08:09

Obserwator wrote:There were many Prussians with Polish sounding names-that doesn't mean they were Poles.
For instance von Bach - Zelewski who asked repeadetely Himler to allow him erase that "Zelewski". He wrote this was his most happy day in his entire life when Himler finally agree.

Mad Zeppelin
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#37

Post by Mad Zeppelin » 08 Oct 2004, 20:11

Yes, agreed - names can be a very muddy water when we consider Polish/German relations. This is why I only quoted some names that were written in the correct Polish way. As you may be aware, the Germans of that period translated "cz" into "tsch" and "rz" and "sz" into "sch". So, a name like "von Tschischwitz" is surely germanized (would be something like "Cziszwic" -?- in Polish).
Alas, I did not scan for Polish names like "Beck", "Haller", "Bor" or "Reich", which do not at all sound Polish (at least to me). So, even good old German names may hide Polish citizens.
Concerning Oberst/Pulkownik von Raczewki, he - when asked by a German officer why he served with the Polish forces - stated: "I would have held my oath to His Majesty. But I do not have any obligation to the current Jewish mishpoka in Berlin. And I never made a secret about being a Pole!"
And when he went into retirement in the mid-twenties he addressed his staff and the French advisors with the statement that for 30 years he had had the privilege to have served in the best army of the world, the Prussian army. And that he felt the obligation to assure that everything that was told about atrocities in Belgium and France was a ly.
Perhaps the Prussian army really was a place were Poles still could feel at home, while in the provinces the which hunt of germanization and the conflicting demands of Polish nationalism made life difficult for the avarage Polish citizen.

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