Georgians in Polish Army

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Musashi
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Post by Musashi » 28 Jun 2005 20:10

Georgien wrote:Thanks a lot to both of you :0

this medal Cross of Virtuti Militari of the V class is it high ranking medal in Polish army? does it still exist? And why did few officers got them?

Thanks again!
The Virtuti Militari Cross is the highest Polish military award and it still exists. Amongst them the highest is I class, the lowest is the V. I wrote the point has not been well taken. Many officers earned Virtuti Militari during the World War II, but only few of them belonged to the Polish Navy. The Polish Navy was small and these medals were not given because of a trivial reason.

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yerbamatt
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Post by yerbamatt » 29 Jun 2005 06:38

Georgien wrote: Im not suprized that Georgians fought for Poland. General Shalikashvili is an example. His son John Shalikashvili became US Supreme Allied Commander 1992-3, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff 1993 until 31 October 1997.
Not so fast, Georgien, not so fast...

Actually the US General Shalikashvili's daddy, Dimitri was a ... major in the Georgian Legion of Waffen SS. By the way - he bravely participated in the Warsaw Uprising in 1944, naturally on the ... German side and then fled west with the family, his then eight years old son Johnny included.

God Almighty - save us of such dedicated defenders.

Regards...

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Georgien
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Post by Georgien » 29 Jun 2005 21:01

Nice try my fellow Canadian, Nice try! Shalikashvili was never part of the SS. He was fighting in Maglakelidzes "Georgien Legion" of Wermacht. He was located in north of France and later in Italy. During the brave Warsaw uprising, he even wasn’t close to Poland. In fact he was already captured. US gov actually investigated Johnnys father and found many details of his career in German army, which was short lived. In fact whole his life he sympathized with Poles. I don’t think US army would allow son of the SS major to be a general in USA.

I recommend US published article in Military History magazine, issue 1999 may. It tell the story of Shalikashvili.

SS, Warsaw uprising... whats next? maybe he was in Auswitz too? Nice try again!

BTW about Shalikashvili you can read Givi Gablianis book just published: My memoirs: World war Two. This book is about Georgians fighting on german side (Gabliani was an officer in Wermacht), he fought with Shalikashvili and knew him well. Both of these men were in Wermacht.

But to your point, i really admire heros he fell during the Warsaw uprising and yes i mean the ones who resisted germans :) So you dont blaim me for something bad :)

May the memories of these heros (Jews, Poles, etc) who fell during that uprising live forever!

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yerbamatt
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Post by yerbamatt » 30 Jun 2005 05:51

Georgien wrote:Nice try my fellow Canadian, Nice try! Shalikashvili was never part of the SS. He was fighting in Maglakelidzes "Georgien Legion" of Wermacht. He was located in north of France and later in Italy. During the brave Warsaw uprising, he even wasn’t close to Poland. In fact he was already captured. US gov actually investigated Johnnys father and found many details of his career in German army, which was short lived. In fact whole his life he sympathized with Poles. I don’t think US army would allow son of the SS major to be a general in USA.

I recommend US published article in Military History magazine, issue 1999 may. It tell the story of Shalikashvili.

SS, Warsaw uprising... whats next? maybe he was in Auswitz too? Nice try again!

BTW about Shalikashvili you can read Givi Gablianis book just published: My memoirs: World war Two. This book is about Georgians fighting on german side (Gabliani was an officer in Wermacht), he fought with Shalikashvili and knew him well. Both of these men were in Wermacht.

But to your point, i really admire heros he fell during the Warsaw uprising and yes i mean the ones who resisted germans :) So you dont blaim me for something bad :)

May the memories of these heros (Jews, Poles, etc) who fell during that uprising live forever!
Hello Georgien,

The thread, started by you, GEORGIANS IN POLISH ARMY, really confuses me.

Can you be so kind and tell me when Wehrmacht has become Polish? That's first.

Second - in 1944 the Georgian Legion, though two years earlier put to life by German Wehrmacht, came under the direct command of the Waffen SS.

http://www.bookrags.com/biography-john- ... ikashvili/

Third - Dimitri Shalikashvili after spending over twenty years in Poland betrayed her and sided with her mortal enemy, the fact you can not deny. He could see destruction of Warsaw in 1939, he did witness the Warsaw Ghetto uprising in 1943, everyday misery and demise and yet he sided with his Nazi masters. There is no excuse for that - he very conveniently forgot that loyalty (Poland was loyal to him) was a two-way street.
By the way - the entire war his German(born in Russia) wife and his family safely lived in the German quarter of the Polish capital and after the Uprising, in October 1944, moved without problems to ... Pappenheim, Bavaria, Germany, about eight hundred kilometers south west of Warsaw.

Fourth - Dimitri Shalikashvili got captured not in Normandy but a few months later in northern Italy and enjoyed full eight years in an allied POW camp there.

His, Dimitri's, tearful story could definitely fool some naive officials of the US Immigration years after the war - and it did.

Nice biography for a "Polish hero" - no doubt about it.

Regards...

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Post by Molobo » 30 Jun 2005 08:37

The thread, started by you, GEORGIANS IN POLISH ARMY, really confuses me.
Why ? It is really simple, they were several Georgians who either were brought up in Poland and joined polish army and Georgian officers who joined after escaping the occupation of Georgia.
here is no excuse for that - he very conveniently forgot that loyalty (Poland was loyal to him) was a two-way street.
I think he fought for his occupied homeland of Georgia. As to judging his personal decisions that is not the topic of the thread.

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Post by Eugene (J. Baker) » 30 Jun 2005 09:13

Molobo wrote:I think he fought for his occupied homeland of Georgia
Nice logic :o :? 8O :x

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Post by Molobo » 30 Jun 2005 10:35

Nice logic
It seems reasnoble as at the time Georgia was occupied by Soviet forces.Independence was the main motiviation of foreign volunteers from Soviet occupied territories such as Baltics, Ukraine, Caucasus etc.So it would be probable that it was his also.

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Post by Eugene (J. Baker) » 30 Jun 2005 10:48

Molobo wrote:
Nice logic
It seems reasnoble as at the time Georgia was occupied by Soviet forces.Independence was the main motiviation of foreign volunteers from Soviet occupied territories such as Baltics, Ukraine, Caucasus etc.So it would be probable that it was his also.
To provide some justification for this man against the Soviets you are ready to betray your own people (who could be killed by him).

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Post by Molobo » 30 Jun 2005 11:50

To provide some justification for this man against the Soviets you are ready to betray your own people (who could be killed by him).
That is silly.WWII wasn't all black and white in certain areas.For example despite Ukrainians and Lithuanians murdering Poles and vice verse those people are ready to forgive each other today, the same to this men.I can understand him even if he fought with enemies of my country which happened to fight against occupier of his homeland.
But this is not the topic of this thread.You can if you wish start a discussion on this men and his tragic life if you will, so I see no point in continuing or hijackign the discussion here.

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Post by Eugene (J. Baker) » 30 Jun 2005 13:03

Molobo wrote:I see no point in continuing or hijackign the discussion here.
Me too. But this is edifying examle of logic as a whole.

Then i'll have a little bit more time i'll start topic in LOUNGE to find differencies in points of view.

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Georgien
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Post by Georgien » 30 Jun 2005 15:18

yerbamatt,

Unfortunately you are greatly mistaken. The only reason any Georgian would join Germans was as Molobo put it to liberate our country from our own enemy, the Russians. Why did Shalikashvili came to Poland in the first place? The whole Georgian aristocracy and inteligencia escaped Russian Bolshevik invasion. One of them was General Maglakelidze who witnessed many atrocities (murdering priests and so on) by the Bolsheviks. When Germany attacked Russia, many of these Georgian émigrés in France, Italy, Germany and Poland joined Germans. It was the only chance to go back and liberate the occupied land.
Almost same goes to Vlasov, Ukrainians, Baltic people and so on. Shalikashvili had nothing to do with Poland, he was Georgian and joined a Georgian batalion which had only one agenda, fight in Georgia against Bolshevism. Many of his childhood friends were there too. Thats why le left Polish army and joined Georgian Legion of Wermacht. It was only national army of Georgians existing in the world that time. By the way Georgian Wermacht never became SS in 1944. Creation of Georgian SS has a separate venture.
In 1945 General Loladzes (with whom together Dmitry fought) last Georgians of Wermacht were killed on Texel by Germans during the uprising.

But judging from your arguments and description of his life, it seems you don’t really know much about Dmitry. I am very well informed about his biography from many sources. And they don’t fit your story. Its like you are talking about a different person.

If you ask me, a person who loves Poland and her history, culture, people would still in 1942 join the germans to have a chance to fight my real enemies in my real country. But i would rather shoot myself if it came to terrorizing Poles. And this was logic of almost every Georgian in German armies. Its bad you don’t understand that.

And Georgians had nothing to do with Warsaw uprising. I will state again that Dmitry was not there or any other Georgian. Most of them were in Normandy, North of Italy with BergKaukasien and Nordkauklasiens and later ended up in Holland.
And this was a logic of almost every Georgian in German armies. Its bad you dont understand that. BTW he was captured in 1943 and never even seen Italy after that. Its true his wife was Russian born but she loved Poland and judging from her letters disliked Russia and her politics.

Molobo,

"For example despite Ukrainians and Lithuanians murdering Poles and vice verse those people are ready to forgive each other today"

There is no other way, they have to forgive and support each other. Take the example of orange revolution and the polish support. After so much idiotic hatred between Poles and Ukrainians, this one event erased all bad memories. Poland should lead eastern Europe and this is our firm believe.

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Post by yerbamatt » 01 Jul 2005 06:18

Georgien wrote:Shalikashvili had nothing to do with Poland
Living over twenty years and nothing to do with Poland? Well, let me quote Evgeni from Kalinigrad (may I?):
Eugene (J.Baker) wrote:Nice logic
Good to know your definition of loyalty - many thanks.

And to spice your very touching and heartbreaking tale I'm dedicating you, Georgien, a picture below:
Georgians in German (and thread is about GEORGIANS IN POLISH ARMY) uniforms, marching on Tbilisi (actually they are about sixty kilometres down south east of occupied, bleeding Warsaw and thousands of miles from your capital).

Enjoy!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Anders
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Georgische truppen in Wernmacht

Post by Anders » 01 Jul 2005 06:54

Hi everyone,

Listen, WW2 unleashed and used many problems of this ugly world.
Many good people were trapped among the "bad guys" trying to solve their problems and overcome unfairness.

Geoprgian and Armenian legions are good examples of that.
By the way, general Anders who fought the nazes wherever he could, found a few good words in favor of Georgian legionnairs

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Anders
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Georgische truppen

Post by Anders » 01 Jul 2005 06:56

Czescz Jerbamatt,

Ja tez w takiem samom miesce jak i ty. Jestem twoim sasiadiem

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yerbamatt
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Re: Georgische truppen

Post by yerbamatt » 01 Jul 2005 07:15

Anders wrote:Czescz Jerbamatt,

Ja tez w takiem samom miesce jak i ty. Jestem twoim sasiadiem
Hi Anders,

Many thanks for your friendly message. :) A glass of something good one day, eh?

Regards...

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