Georgians in Polish Army

Discussions on all aspects of Poland during the Second Polish Republic and the Second World War. Hosted by Peter K
User avatar
Andy H
Forum Staff
Posts: 15313
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 20:51
Location: UK and USA

Post by Andy H » 01 Jul 2005 15:15

Lets keep this thread on a level & civil plain.

Andy H

bratello
Member
Posts: 373
Joined: 26 Oct 2004 15:46
Location: Rome, Italy

Post by bratello » 01 Jul 2005 17:52

Reading the previous posts made me wonder (even if off topic):

- Was Georgia given any consideration in Nazi's rather elaborate geopolitical program for the post WW2 world?
Georgien wrote: And Georgians had nothing to do with Warsaw uprising. (...) Most of them were in Normandy, North of Italy with BergKaukasien and Nordkauklasiens and later ended up in Holland...
OK, OK, "Georgians had nothing to do with Warsaw uprising", but what exactly did they do in Normandy and N. Italy? Built fortifications or chased partisans? What memories did they leave in France and Italy?

- The Georgians serving in the German Army in order to liberate Georgia from the Soviets follow the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" principle. Is their position defendable if they were aware of the cannibalistic ideology espoused by "my enemy's enemy" and aimed first and foremost against "Jewish plutocrats"? (From what I know the Georgians are traditionally friendly to the Jews). It would be interesting to see some opinions.

User avatar
Georgien
Member
Posts: 265
Joined: 30 May 2005 18:42
Location: Tbilisi, Georgia

Post by Georgien » 01 Jul 2005 23:07

yerbamatt,
I don't want to disappoint you but that photo is taken in Texel Holland. Boys of Lieutenant Loladze. About 600 of them were butchered by Germans during the rebellion of 1945-the last battle of world war two they call it. Those boys never seen Poland in their entire lives. I actually spoke with two veterans from Texel who told me many horrific stories. Im not trying to be heartbreaking or sentimental. I understand you perfectly. And i did mention that i love Poland and her people. But those man had nothing against Poland, on contrary. We are very small country and fascism is something very unusual for us and unacceptable.
Bratello was correct. We have a great relationship with Jews. They migrated to ancient Georgia during the Babylonian captivity. Through history we believed that they were Gods chosen nation, people of Christ and therefore treated them with respect. Givi Gabliani who fought with Shalikashvili and Maglakelidze mentioned of that dilemma which bothered many Georgians serving in German army. Thats why when helping Jewish family in Prague he was captured by SS and sent to concentration camp.
You can not judge those people. They have seen what Poles have during the Nazi occupation. Bolshevik occupation was as equally destructive and tragic as Nazi occupation. Imagine, an European nation is offering you to be liberated from this bloody conqueror/mosnter USSR. Who would not join them?
If I understand the misery of Polish people , why cant you do the same?

Anders,
Its so nice to see you here. A real historian and an intellectual men :) You didn't mention Azerbaijani volunteers :) yes yes i know who much you like them :) Its good to see you here!


Niech żyje wielki Polska

User avatar
Georgien
Member
Posts: 265
Joined: 30 May 2005 18:42
Location: Tbilisi, Georgia

Post by Georgien » 02 Jul 2005 00:04

I forgot to add, that photo which states in Dutch allegedly being taken in Poland was latter corrected by Dutch/Texel Historian Dick van Reeuwijk. It was taken in Camp #5 on Island of Texel, near the famous lighthouse where 300 Georgians died durring the rebbelion. Your info about Shalikashvili in SS murderign Polish during the Warsaw uprising is as unrealistic as this photo being taken in Poland.

How about Polish Ulans who murdered thousands of civiliance in Madrid and rest of Spain during the Napoleonic wars? Why did they join monster Corsican? What reason do they had to fight for him in Spain, Austria and finnaly Waterloo (where they were horribly crushed by Sccotish cavalry) ? If your answer is to liebrate Poland from Despotic Tzarist Russia than the same goes with Shalikashvili. Russia too :)
How about those Georgians who served in Polish army? Received Polish medals? How many Poles served in Georgian army when we were in trouble?

User avatar
Georgien
Member
Posts: 265
Joined: 30 May 2005 18:42
Location: Tbilisi, Georgia

Post by Georgien » 02 Jul 2005 00:05

I forgot to add, that photo which states in Dutch allegedly being taken in Poland was latter corrected by Dutch/Texel Historian Dick van Reeuwijk. It was taken in Camp #5 on Island of Texel, near the famous lighthouse where 300 Georgians died during the rebellion. Your info about Shalikashvili in SS murdering Polish during the Warsaw uprising is as unrealistic as this photo being taken in Poland.
How about Polish Ulans who murdered thousands of civilians in Madrid and rest of Spain during the Napoleonic wars? Why did they join monster Corsican? What reason did they have to fight for him in Spain, Austria and finally Waterloo (where they were horribly crushed by Scottish cavalry) ? If your answer is to liberate Poland from Despotic Tsarist Russia than the same goes with Shalikashvili.

How about those Georgians who served in Polish army? Received Polish medals? How many Poles served in Georgian army when we were in trouble?
I hope you are not going to judge my arguments cynically as heart breaking. Its bad Molobo is not participating in these discussions.

Niech żyje wielki Polska

Molobo
Banned
Posts: 629
Joined: 14 Feb 2005 14:20
Location: Poland

Post by Molobo » 02 Jul 2005 14:51

Its bad Molobo is not participating in these discussions.
Like I said as a Pole I feel no grudge towards those people.I can perfectly understand that many felt that was their only option to regain freedom.Obviously this was a tragic and dramatic decision for many as the split between Georgians fighting for Poles and Reich shows.
But Lithuanians and Ukrainians had a stronger connections to Germany and directly fought Poles and there is no problem with understanding and forgiving them in todays Poland.Most of the accusations usually come from Russia which still isn't willing to deal with its imperialistic past and history of brutally enslaving its neighbours like Baltics, Poland, Ukraine or Georgia.
Hopefully in future this will change.

User avatar
yerbamatt
Member
Posts: 311
Joined: 19 May 2004 04:27
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Post by yerbamatt » 02 Jul 2005 17:36

Molobo wrote:Obviously this was a tragic and dramatic decision for many as the split between Georgians fighting for Poles and Reich shows.
Czesc (Hi) Molobo,

It really baffles me how easy was for some to make those decisions after living over twenty years in exile. Nothing counted for them, all debts to the host country aside - only some narrowly comprehended interests. It seems to me that this simply is the way - the same happenned in Texel in 1945 and with some ex-Soviet high-ranking officers after 1991. We should be aware of that.
Molobo wrote:But Lithuanias and Ukrainians had a stronger connections to Germany and directly fought Poles and there is no problem with understanding and forgiving them in todays Poland.
Well said. I can forgive an enemy and never a turncoat.

Pozdrowienia (Regards)...

User avatar
Musashi
Member
Posts: 4656
Joined: 13 Dec 2002 15:07
Location: Coventry, West Midlands, the UK [it's one big roundabout]

Post by Musashi » 02 Jul 2005 17:55

yerbamatt wrote:[...]
Well said. I can forgive an enemy and never a turncoat.
Could you tell me what makes turncoats of them? Do you think Poland was an ideal neighbour for them?

User avatar
Georgien
Member
Posts: 265
Joined: 30 May 2005 18:42
Location: Tbilisi, Georgia

Post by Georgien » 02 Jul 2005 18:16

yerbamatt

You didnt answer my posts. Too Bad!


Molobo,

100% I agree with you. I dont defend them but i also understand their choise. But if i was Shalikashvili probably i would have stayed deffending Poland. Because i would tell even in 1942 that Nazi cause was lost one. You cant expect freedom from people who murdered millions and took away their freedom with it.
Can you please tell me, in the section here I posted a picture of polish children tied on a tree killed. Can you tell me who did it, where and what was the reason for such enimosity?

Thanks
Last edited by Georgien on 03 Jul 2005 22:23, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Georgien
Member
Posts: 265
Joined: 30 May 2005 18:42
Location: Tbilisi, Georgia

Post by Georgien » 02 Jul 2005 18:18

"Do you think Poland was an ideal neighbour for them?"

Yes. I wish Georgia had Poland as a neighbour rather than Turkey Russia Iran, etc. :) BTW do you know any ideal neighbour?

bratello
Member
Posts: 373
Joined: 26 Oct 2004 15:46
Location: Rome, Italy

Post by bratello » 04 Jul 2005 18:23

Georgien wrote: yerbamatt You didnt answer my posts. Too Bad!
Georgien, I am not trying to be pushy, but mine first:
bratello wrote: - OK, "Georgians had nothing to do with Warsaw uprising", but what exactly did they do in Normandy and N. Italy? Built fortifications or chased partisans? What memories did they leave in France and Italy?
I'd be much obliged.

User avatar
Georgien
Member
Posts: 265
Joined: 30 May 2005 18:42
Location: Tbilisi, Georgia

Post by Georgien » 05 Jul 2005 16:13

Bonjorno bratello,

Well you ask what did they do in Normandy and Italy. Firstly, they were trained in Northern Italy. Georgien Legion, BergKaukasien, Armenien, etc. They were preparing for the eastern front. They didn't chase any partisans or kill any locals. I think your own Musolini did that. But unfortunately, lunatic Hitler and psychopath Himler did not allow them to participate in the battle of eastern front. Instead they were building roads, bridges, basically going everything but fighting at first. Later by the end of war they ended up in Holland. By the 1945 they rebelled against Germans, killed 800 of them and siezed island of texel. After, germans deployed SS and brutality began. There are many good memories from Dutch of the Georgians. One source would be the documentary of the anniversary of texel rebellion.

What memories they leave in France and Italy? None. Nobody even knew them. Only ones that remember Georgians are Canadian veterans who liberated Holland and remember them not as enemies but as allies. Most of the Georgians were killed after the war. When they were shipped back to the Russian version of the Third Reich-USSR. They were gunned down before having the chance of stepping on Soviet soil from the trains.

Do you know any bad memories of Georgians or Caucasians in Italy? How about Italians SS or Italian army overseas? Do you have any good memory of them too? Not according to Ethiopians who have seen horrors of Italian invasion.

I hope i answered your question.

bratello
Member
Posts: 373
Joined: 26 Oct 2004 15:46
Location: Rome, Italy

Post by bratello » 06 Jul 2005 13:20

Georgien wrote:Bonjorno bratello...(etc.)
Thank you for your reply. Is there a link or a good book that you could recommend for my further education on the subject under discussion?
Georgien wrote:...They were gunned down before having the chance of stepping on Soviet soil from the trains.
Any source on that?

Two minor comments:
- it is "Buon giorno" (I let the Polish speaking members to take care of "Niech żyje wielki Polska") and
- in regards to "your own Musolini", it is safe not to deduct members' ethnic background, their point of view, etc. from their locations. I am an "Italian" only by virtue of choosing to live in Rome for the last couple of years.

Regards.

User avatar
Georgien
Member
Posts: 265
Joined: 30 May 2005 18:42
Location: Tbilisi, Georgia

Post by Georgien » 06 Jul 2005 15:10

Buon giorno bratello :)



Niech żyje wielki Polska- Long live greater Poland. As for sources, they are available unfortunatelly in Russian. An article by Andrew Andersen-Repatriation to Soviet Union. I will ask if they woudl have english version of that. You can also find his another article and repatriation horrors of the Russians

http://www.feldgrau.com/rvol.html

thanks to Molobo's suggestion, the correct verion is Niech Żyje Wielka Polska :)

I remember reading that during the march of Polish Ulans in Paris, Napoleon was stunned when they galloped and yelled Niech Żyje Imperator :)

bratello
Member
Posts: 373
Joined: 26 Oct 2004 15:46
Location: Rome, Italy

Post by bratello » 06 Jul 2005 17:44

Georgien wrote:...As for sources, they are available unfortunatelly in Russian...
It'll do--I read Russian. Thank you and regards.

Return to “Poland 1919-1945”