French infantry division firepower 1940

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Carl Schwamberger
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby Carl Schwamberger » 30 Jan 2018 14:32

Been curious about where the 30.5 & 35.5 cm Czech cannon were in 1940.

Cekekb
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby Cekekb » 01 Feb 2018 17:17

Carl Schwamberger wrote:Been curious about where the 30.5 & 35.5 cm Czech cannon were in 1940.


According to Czech sources Wehrmacht formed two battalions - 624 and 641 - and one independent battery armed with 305mm "Morser 16(t)". Those were used against the Maginot Line - Ouvrage Fermont is especially mentioned.

As to 355mm cannon - in Czechoslovak military there were none. And while Iam not sure, I think that Škoda had never produced gun with that caliber

alain adam
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby alain adam » 01 Feb 2018 20:19

Hello ,
That's not the real subject of this post, but , for czech heavy artillery we have in 1940 campaign :
-830 Art.Bttr(mot) , with 42cm H (t) (x1)
-815 Art Bn (mot) , with 30.5cm (t) ( don't know the model ) (x6 ? )
-I/814 and II/814 Art.Bn ( mot ) , with 24cm Haubitze H39 (t) (x4 per bn )
-779 Art Bttr (mot ) , with 30.5cm Morser 16 (t) (x4 ? )
-737 Art.Bn(mot ) ,with 15cm sFH 25(t) (x12)
This model is in 81,82,83,88,93,94,95,96,98,Polizei I.D , and in II/2 Art Abt (x12 per unit )
-1/729 to 3/729 Art.bttr (mot ) with 10cm K (t) (x4 per bttr ? )
-1/730 to 3/730 Art.Bttr (mot ) with 10cm K (t) (x4 per bttr ? )
-641 and 624 Art Bn (mot ) with 21cm lg M ( german) and 30.5cm Morser 16 (t) ( x4 ? )
-II/84 Art Bn (mot ) with 24cm K M16 (t) (x6)
-I/77 Art Bn (mot ) with 15 cm sFH 37 (t) (x12)
I think the II/77 was been rearmed with the same gun during the campaign , but not sure .

In addition , I've a doubt on 770 and 789 Art Abt , with 15cm sFH 15(t) (x12 ) .

Maybe something is missing , and my figures are maybe not correct .

Regards
Alain
ATF40 ( Armée de Terre Française 1940 ) : French ground army in 1940 , website atf40.fr

Kelvin
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby Kelvin » 02 Feb 2018 07:43

Hi, Alain, if German Heeresgruppe C used huge 305mm, 355mm or 420mm , can directly destroy Ouvrages ?

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby Carl Schwamberger » 03 Feb 2018 01:50

Kelvin wrote:Hi, Alain, if German Heeresgruppe C used huge 305mm, 355mm or 420mm , can directly destroy Ouvrages ?


Yes. The trick is they have to moved to a suitable position, the target precisely located and the vulnerable point actually hit. The French Overage & their observation posts were located to have maximum observation of surrounding ground. Ground that could not be observed was precisely surveyed so suspected enemy forces could be struck with harassing fires. Several secondary works were destroyed, after careful planning and methodical preparations. In those cases the French had already withdrawn the field forces including the supporting artillery from the sector.

Kelvin
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby Kelvin » 08 Feb 2018 06:54

Hello, Carl, thank

alain adam
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby alain adam » 13 Feb 2018 20:43

I need to add something ...
French army had many batteries of ALVF guns ( heavy guns on rail ) , beyond the maginot wall , and capacity to calculate or identify position of heavy german guns after the first shot . So they will be able to send counter-battery attacks if french positions were hit .
It's why this solution was not very fully used from the germans : the french heavy artillery was a real problem for the germans , and , i've to add again , some forts in maginot line had long range and powerful guns to opperate the same counter-battery action .

Regards,
Alain
ATF40 ( Armée de Terre Française 1940 ) : French ground army in 1940 , website atf40.fr

Kelvin
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby Kelvin » 17 Feb 2018 18:10

Back to infantry firepower, I see Lee Sharp book volume III mentions French motorized infantry regiment had additonal weapon kept in regiment and battalion supply units, totalling 72 x FM-24.29, 18 x Hotchkiss MG, 6 x 60mm mortar and 3 x 81mm mortar. But I don't know why this kind of units needed to keep reserve weapon like that if she did not have enough trained crews to use this weapon or just waited for supply depot to deliver new weapon to her, like other division.

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby Carl Schwamberger » 17 Feb 2018 19:11

Kelvin wrote:Back to infantry firepower, I see Lee Sharp book volume III mentions French motorized infantry regiment had additonal weapon kept in regiment and battalion supply units, totalling 72 x FM-24.29, 18 x Hotchkiss MG, 6 x 60mm mortar and 3 x 81mm mortar. But I don't know why this kind of units needed to keep reserve weapon like that if she did not have enough trained crews to use this weapon or just waited for supply depot to deliver new weapon to her, like other division.


The proportions to issued weapons in the companies sounds similar to the 'reserve' stocks we had in our division allowances. (Circa 1983 USMC) i.e: the division had four extra M101 howitzers in the "Operational Ready Pool" ORP. The practice during peace time was to issue one of these when a worn cannon was brought to upper repair echelon & the item under repair was designated as a ORP item. It the weapon was sent out side division echelon repair, 'depot' level then a weapon from a pool outside the division was to replace it immediately.

I suspect the French had similar system to us, since we had many residual practices derived from the French 1917-1918 & later.

Kelvin
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby Kelvin » 17 Feb 2018 19:15

Hello, Carl, I get your point. But is curious that only DIM had this advantage while other divisions did not.

Carl Schwamberger
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby Carl Schwamberger » 27 Feb 2018 02:26

Kelvin wrote:Hello, Carl, I get your point. But is curious that only DIM had this advantage while other divisions did not.


They may have had such reserve items. Alternately the reserve weapons pool was at a higher echelon, perhaps Army level for administrative convince.

alain adam
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby alain adam » 28 Feb 2018 20:59

Hello ,
i'm not a specialist for artillery , but , in my mind , if we look at a french 1940's division , we have the "Artillerie Divisionnaire" ( AD ) ( headquarters of division's artillery ) , with one or two artillery regiments , and the artillery park & train .
But all the complete guns were in combat regiment . At this point i 've to add , some regiments had instructions units ( 111st Instruction battery ) , and some guns in addition of the theoretical dotation .
On other side, you have artillery parks at army level , with spare pieces and replacement guns , and depots at regional level .
So no reserve pool in the division , if i do not make a mistake .

Regards ,
Alain
ATF40 ( Armée de Terre Française 1940 ) : French ground army in 1940 , website atf40.fr

archiveruk
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Re: French infantry division firepower 1940

Postby archiveruk » 03 Mar 2018 15:42

The reason the DIM had extra weapons was that they were to be the forefront of an advance and these weapons were for defensive purposes only when oppostion was met. They were carried in the vehicles of the infantry companies.


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