16e and 18e RTS questions

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chiangshan
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16e and 18e RTS questions

Post by chiangshan » 25 Sep 2020 15:22

Hello, I need help with some problems of 16e and 18e RTS history in 1944-1945 period:
1. When were they recreated?
2. How was their race composition?
3. Which division did they belong to?
4. Which battle did they take part in?
5. Were they equipped with US, British or French equipments?
6. How many soldiers were sent to form the 22e and 43e RIC?
It is much appreciated if someone can help me with these questions. Thank you in advance.

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Loïc
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Re: 16e and 18e RTS questions

Post by Loïc » 26 Sep 2020 00:38

hello

both Regiments were recreated in june 1943 in Africa for the new 10e DIC (Colonial Infantry Division) disbanded few months later in february 1944
the RTS are of course from black Africans and Frenchmen

the 16e RTS was disbanded the 31st may 1944 to renforce the 1ère DFL/DMI,
it was raised again in september 1944 in southern France gathering the Senegalese Tirailleurs personnel from several units at the end of their contracts who should be repatriated to Africa, the regiment was badly reported and known by several incidents, bads behaviour and state of mind

the 18e RTS joined the Armée B ~1ère Armée as a Pioneer unit of the General Reserves in august 1944, then was sent in garrison in Corsica

in november 1944 2 new expeditionnary Divisions (Divisions Coloniales d'Extrême-Orient - DCEO) were raised in southern France for the Far East Indochinese & Pacific theater with French volunteers and Indigenous on USMC type for the first and British organisation for the second
with the lack of financial and military means impacting armament and equipment while the priority was of course given to the war against Germany and to the 1ère Armée and others political strategical considerations with traditional usual difficulties with anglo-saxons didn't allow to materialize their participation in Asia

the 1ère DCEO type "US Marines" raised in Provence, southeastern France, gathered again both 16e and 18e RTS
the 15th march 1944 the 3 infantry regiments had
16e RTS 1728 men of which 464 black africans
18e RTS 3206 men of which 1492 black africans
43e RIC 2945 of which paradoxically 2487 africans

as "USMC" type division, it was planned to receive US equipments but the reality was other for the reasons mentionned above
the 1ère DCEO was formed in a context of great material poverty, the documents availables of autumn 1944 about 16e and 18e RTS show very weakly equiped units with partial individual armament coming from recovery 1269 german or 1150 austrian rifles without heavy weapons except few mortars, nor signals and transport (...) lack of cohesion among the personnel (...) the clothing mixed french american and even german

in april 1945 received mint french armament but keeping foreign rifles due the lack of amunitions when 3 battalions of 18e RTS and one of 16e RTS were used to participate in the last operations in the Alps and Italy

these last datas come from page 586 Annexe 2.13
http://theses.univ-lyon2.fr/documents/l ... se_udl.pdf
« Le jour d’après » Organisations et projets militaires dans la France libérée Août 1944- mars 1946
Stéphane Weiss
thése de doctorat Université de Lyon

at the summer 1945 the 1ère DCEO was disbanded, serving as nucleus for 3e DIC to Indochina, 22e and 43e RIC reorganized again keeping only the Europeans in both units

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chiangshan
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Re: 16e and 18e RTS questions

Post by chiangshan » 27 Sep 2020 06:29

Hello

Excellent information. That helps me a lot. Thank you very much for your time.
Loïc wrote:
26 Sep 2020 00:38
hello

both Regiments were recreated in june 1943 in Africa for the new 10e DIC (Colonial Infantry Division) disbanded few months later in february 1944
the RTS are of course from black Africans and Frenchmen

the 16e RTS was disbanded the 31st may 1944 to renforce the 1ère DFL/DMI,
it was raised again in september 1944 in southern France gathering the Senegalese Tirailleurs personnel from several units at the end of their contracts who should be repatriated to Africa, the regiment was badly reported and known by several incidents, bads behaviour and state of mind

the 18e RTS joined the Armée B ~1ère Armée as a Pioneer unit of the General Reserves in august 1944, then was sent in garrison in Corsica

in november 1944 2 new expeditionnary Divisions (Divisions Coloniales d'Extrême-Orient - DCEO) were raised in southern France for the Far East Indochinese & Pacific theater with French volunteers and Indigenous on USMC type for the first and British organisation for the second
with the lack of financial and military means impacting armament and equipment while the priority was of course given to the war against Germany and to the 1ère Armée and others political strategical considerations with traditional usual difficulties with anglo-saxons didn't allow to materialize their participation in Asia

the 1ère DCEO type "US Marines" raised in Provence, southeastern France, gathered again both 16e and 18e RTS
the 15th march 1944 the 3 infantry regiments had
16e RTS 1728 men of which 464 black africans
18e RTS 3206 men of which 1492 black africans
43e RIC 2945 of which paradoxically 2487 africans

as "USMC" type division, it was planned to receive US equipments but the reality was other for the reasons mentionned above
the 1ère DCEO was formed in a context of great material poverty, the documents availables of autumn 1944 about 16e and 18e RTS show very weakly equiped units with partial individual armament coming from recovery 1269 german or 1150 austrian rifles without heavy weapons except few mortars, nor signals and transport (...) lack of cohesion among the personnel (...) the clothing mixed french american and even german

in april 1945 received mint french armament but keeping foreign rifles due the lack of amunitions when 3 battalions of 18e RTS and one of 16e RTS were used to participate in the last operations in the Alps and Italy

these last datas come from page 586 Annexe 2.13
http://theses.univ-lyon2.fr/documents/l ... se_udl.pdf
« Le jour d’après » Organisations et projets militaires dans la France libérée Août 1944- mars 1946
Stéphane Weiss
thése de doctorat Université de Lyon

at the summer 1945 the 1ère DCEO was disbanded, serving as nucleus for 3e DIC to Indochina, 22e and 43e RIC reorganized again keeping only the Europeans in both units

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