Women in the French Army 1939/40.

Discussions on all aspects of France during the Inter-War era and Second World War.
Stephan
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Re: Women in the French Army 1939/40.

Post by Stephan » 02 Nov 2019 19:26

Ouch, so they did transport war equipment in the ambulances? its NOT what it was supposed to be, a clear breach of the laws of war. Unless of course, if the germans bombed and shelled these ambulances anyway.... Breach of war customs as breach of war customs.

Another point. If it wasnt meant for women to be active in direct war zone, so their commanders made a foul decision to ask them and let them.
We whom are for equality of genders of course do admire and encourage these women... And perhaps also these commanders whom let these women share the dangers and difficulties. Be soldiers fighting for their country. At least, if the women got their recognization afterwards. Otherwise it was just a misuse of them because it was the most convenient at that moment.

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tigre
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Re: Women in the French Army 1939/40.

Post by tigre » 09 Nov 2019 11:26

Hello to all :D; a little more..................

The Women's Sanitary Automobile Sections (SSA) 1940.

The dissolution of the SSA.

As a result of the armistice, the sanitary formations in disarray were lost sight of and dispersed and lost sight of by the Subdirectorate of the Train, which made an inventory of the women's Sanitary Automobile Sections and the foreign volunteers on July 18, 1940. The Section 5 202/19, retreated in Chazal, in the Low-Pyrenees, "without function, commanded from the military point of view by Lieutenant Kiener, in the process of demobilization and replaced by the 2nd Lieutenant Capromier, assisted by a Deputy Lieutenant, Miss Schwob de Lure, a 2nd Deputy Lieutenant, Miss Bart and a Maréchal des Logis (NCO), Miss Assolant, included 38 drivers, still having 19 sanitary vehicles and their kitchen truck.

The 5 203/19, meanwhile, moves to Châteauroux with the few remaining vehicles and reduced staff. SATS 5 411/19, whose drivers are SSBM men who bravely participated in the fighting around Châlons-sur-Marne, was dissolved by order of the prefect of the Seine, and its commander, Lieutenant Colomer, taken prisoner. Section 5 401/19 of women of the Franco-Argentine Committee, trapped in Poitiers and then returned to Paris by the Germans, is dissolved there as soon as it arrives and its vehicles return to the Red Cross.

The SSBM Address in the unoccupied area is installed in Châteauroux. However, very quickly, the dissolution of its units is proposed, "considering that sections No. 5 202/19 and 5 203/19 stationed in France are not used by the Health Service. The personnel under military enrollment ceased in their functions as a result of the demobilization Many volunteer conductors ask to cancel their contract Consequently, the Second Directorate, Subdirectorate of Train proposes to dissolve the two sections and transmit the material available to the author of the donation, in accordance with the provisions of the decree of the January 31, 1940 ". The dissolution is signed in Vichy on September 12, 1940 by the Secretary of State for War, Admiral Darlan.

Second, women drivers, freed from their military commitment, continue with many of their activities within the Red Cross. However, this reintegration into the Red Cross does not mean that they join Vichy's policy. The opposition of Alix Auboyneau, for example, earned him to be summoned by the Gestapo, to rue des Saussaies, where he valiantly exposed his disapproval of Pierre Laval's policy. In November 1940, the reorganization of the personnel, created from Châteauroux by Princess de Broglie, who resides in the Château de Von, directs a certain number of SSBM volunteers in activities to help refugees and prisoners of war. Others choose different forms, continuing the fight against Germany after winning North Africa, such as Hélène Terré, or going underground in France.

In total, if we look at all 71,192 women who served in the French Red Cross formations during World War II, and whose drivers are only a very small minority, the ephemeral sanitary sections of 1940's Women's Sanitary formations can only appear as a anecdotal episode in the history of women in the Military Health Service. However, it should be borne in mind that this first experience was the origin of the constitution of a North African Automobile Section (SANA) in Algiers on July 26, 1941, with former SSA volunteers, who arrived in northern Africa. It will mainly follow the development of female staff of the General Staff, communications and health (nurses, ambulances) from 1943, in continuity with the model of the female body of the Free French Forces that includes, since the end of 1942, three hundred volunteers, including nine officers and fifteen noncommissioned officers.

Sources: Jean-Jacques Monsuez, "Les sections sanitaires automobiles féminines", Revue historique des armées [En ligne], 247 | 2007, mis en ligne le 23 juillet 2008, I consulted 19 juillet 2019. URL: http://journals.openedition.org/rha/2033

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

gregorianchant
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Re: Women in the French Army 1939/40.

Post by gregorianchant » 18 Feb 2021 08:19

tigre wrote:
07 Sep 2019 14:59
In the line of fire, relief of the injured is provided by light means to the Regimental Aid Station (SRP). After first aid, the wounded are taken to the Divisional Emergency Station (DSS) in light sanitary vehicles of the motorized sanitary section of the division. The most serious and urgent are immediately driven by the automobile health sections to the ambulance group of the corps (GACA) to be operated (light surgical ambulance), while the others, whose urgency seems less, will be treated at the primary evacuation hospital ( HOE1). Therefore, the established system is based on the cornerstone of the transport capacity of the wounded.
Hello Tigre,

Question as to how the surgical units attached to the Field Army fit into this order of treatment/evacuation? I understand the Army Corps would have attached to it a Medical Ambulance and Surgical Ambulance, and that more serious urgent cases would go to it initially from the division sanitary sections, while others would go the Primary Evacuation Hospital (and possibly from there to the Secondary Evacuation Hospital).

But where in that process did the ambulance units attached to the field army get involved? Was the Field Army ambulance units a stop after the GACA or an alternative to the GACA? I do see that the Field Army had about 10 different ambulance, special ambulance, light surgical ambulance, and heavy surgical ambulance units. Unlike the GACA, it looks like it had three Complimentary Hospitals, with approximately 1,500 beds, in addition to two laboratory units. Did those field army medical units collectively act like a field hospital?

Also, did the Field Army ambulance units and the GACA generally feed patients into the Secondary Evacuation Hospital? Or generally did the divisional sanitary section send a patients to either the ambulance units or to the Secondary Evacuation?

Thanks in advance!

Best regards,

Greg

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tigre
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Re: Women in the French Army 1939/40.

Post by tigre » 18 Feb 2021 18:24

Hello Greg :D; taken and more or less...................................

Secuence of treatment/evacuation.

At the front, each regiment had a regimental ambulance made up of personnel and equipment belonging to the regiment. It was in charge of extreme emergency care and the first triage of the wounded. The division, already better equipped, had a "divisional sanitary group", the G.S.D., which had shelter equipment (Tortoise and Bessonneau tents). But its means of transport were horse-drawn (except in the cavalry divisions where they were motorized) and still used the stretcher-carrying wheelbarrows.

Further back, the Army Corps Health Service took charge of the evacuees of the divisions and began the army's role of treatment. It had a group of army corps ambulances which replaced the "divisional ambulances" of the Great War and which included: a medical ambulance, a light surgical ambulance and a "medical supply group" (GSR) with, in addition, a section of 20 heavy sanitary cars, a section for hygiene, washing and disinfection.

In the army and in the "zone of the stages", a sort of space which separated the army formations from the secondary evacuation hospitals, were the "primary evacuation hospitals", the HOE1. (there was one per army corps). They had to complete the technical triage done at the front and ensure the categorization of the injured and patients, treat emergencies on site and evacuate others. Next to it were the "heavy surgical ambulances", one of which was specialized; "light surgical ambulances"; "army medical ambulances" including a specialty; also, "complementary army hospitals" (H.C.A.), with a capacity of 500 beds; an "army laboratory" (with a chemistry-toxicology section and a bacteriology section); a "Z laboratory" (combat gas and forensic medicine).

Further back were the "secondary evacuation hospitals" (HOE2); these were heavy formations with a capacity of 2 to 3,000 beds, with almost all medical or surgical specialties. They were usually located in the hospitals of the territory and they constituted the "therapeutic barrier of the armies". Finally, a regulating station was to regulate the removal and transport of the wounded and sick evacuated to the interior areas.

Sources: Le Service de santé militaire à la veille de la Campagne de France en 1940. Pierre LEFEBVRE, Claude GIUDICELLI et Francis DIDELOT.
http://hopitauxmilitairesguerre1418.ove ... -1940.html
http://hopitauxmilitairesguerre1418.ove ... -1940.html

Seen the mentioned above, the Army assets and Women's Sanitary Automobile Sections carried the wounded/patients from the trains to the HOE and vice versa. Also evacuated to the rear inland. The game is open to the "experten". Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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gregorianchant
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Re: Women in the French Army 1939/40.

Post by gregorianchant » 19 Feb 2021 06:01

Hello Raúl,

Thank you, this is helpful for me in understanding, and I read the sources you linked to also. In the army zone/zone of stages, you mention that the HOE1 was next to the field army medical assets (army ambulances and HCA).

Do you know what the flow of patients was between the HOE1 on one hand and the army medical assets on the other hand? For example, I know the HOE1 acted as a clearing station, triaging patient and sending more serious/longer term patients to an HOE2 further behind the lines. But did the HOW1 also send patients to the army assets (to complimentary hospitals at which the army ambulance units may have been supporting) instead of sending to an HOE2?

Or were some patients sent from the Army Corps Service directly to the army medical asset while others were sent to the HOE1? Trying to understand better the role of the army medical assets in this scheme.

Best regards,

Greg

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