French motorized divisions??

Discussions on all aspects of France during the Inter-War era and Second World War.
Carl Schwamberger
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 7327
Joined: 02 Sep 2006 20:31
Location: USA

Re:

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 04 Dec 2019 03:06

Markus Becker wrote:
18 Aug 2006 15:25
So that´s 7 fully and 15 partially mechanized divisions. Can one still say the Wehrmacht was more mobile? On the one hand the mechanized divisions were fully mechanized/motorized, but on the other hand the Wehrmacht was larger.
By the way, the 2,000 plus FT-17 tanks the French Army had were all in some depots and not used by combat units weren´t they? I know you already wrote about this, but I can´t find the posting.
I suspect that after a examination of each battalion you will find the proportion of motorization in the French army was larger. ie: approximately 20% of the German artillery battalions were motorized. For the French the was at least 30% & possibly as high as 40% of artillery battalions or Groupes.

User avatar
Leo Niehorster
Member
Posts: 1385
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 22:07
Location: Hannover, Germany

Re: French motorized divisions??

Post by Leo Niehorster » 26 Dec 2019 10:50

On 10.50.1940, Germany had ~181 motorized artillery battalions, whereas France had ~240.

--
Leo
Information not passed on is lost.
URL: World War II Armed Forces

Carl Schwamberger
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 7327
Joined: 02 Sep 2006 20:31
Location: USA

Re: French motorized divisions??

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 26 Dec 2019 19:20

I don't have exact numbers for German artillery battalions at hand. if my estimate of 840 twelve & eight cannon units is correct then 181 motorized would be 21%.

My rough estimate for the French in metropolitan France is 640 'battalions of 12 cannon each. 240 motorized Groupes would be 37.5%

Calculating the 'division artillery strength for each is not difficult, but I am very weak on the number of independent units in the corps & army level organization.

User avatar
Loïc
Member
Posts: 826
Joined: 14 Jun 2003 03:38
Location: Riom Auvergne & Bourbonnais France

Re: French motorized divisions??

Post by Loïc » 27 Dec 2019 04:16

just seen this morning at the newsstand in some new issue of a WWII magazine I didn't buy an article by Max Schiavon where he writes that the half of the Artillery was still horsed

a quick overview at regimental level
from the 1er to 99e RA mainly field artillery 23 of the 97 regiments were motorized
1er 11e 15e 16e 25e 30e 42e
the 8 Fortress Mobile Artillery 23e 39e 46e 49e 59e 60e 69e 70e
the 71e to 78e of the DLM & DLC, 3 with 3 groups, 5 with 2 groups
there were also groups in North Africa

serie 100 Heavy & Fortress Artillery 30 of the 72 regiments
9 of the 22 Army Corps Heavy Artillery : 101e 102e 103e 104e 107e 108e 120e 123e 124e
141e to 149e are all horsed
150e to 170e are the Fortress Artillery Regiments of the Maginot Line
171e to 174e and 181e to 197e are all motorised = 21

serie 200 Divisional Heavy Artillery Regiments with only 2 groups instead of usually 3
14 of the 62 regiments : 201e 202e 211e 215e 216e 225e 230e 242e 289e 291e 293e 294e 296e 297e

serie 300, 29 regiments all motorised not including the particular case of the Railway Artillery (370e to 374e)

would give around 96 of ~261 regts

not including Railway AAA and Colonial Artillery

Carl Schwamberger
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 7327
Joined: 02 Sep 2006 20:31
Location: USA

Re: French motorized divisions??

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 03 Jan 2020 05:26

96 divided into 261 = 36.78% of the regiments motorized. Close to my estimate for battalion groups.

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 2640
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: French motorized divisions??

Post by Kelvin » 06 Feb 2020 16:18

Loïc wrote:
27 Dec 2019 04:16
just seen this morning at the newsstand in some new issue of a WWII magazine I didn't buy an article by Max Schiavon where he writes that the half of the Artillery was still horsed

a quick overview at regimental level
from the 1er to 99e RA mainly field artillery 23 of the 97 regiments were motorized
1er 11e 15e 16e 25e 30e 42e
the 8 Fortress Mobile Artillery 23e 39e 46e 49e 59e 60e 69e 70e
the 71e to 78e of the DLM & DLC, 3 with 3 groups, 5 with 2 groups
there were also groups in North Africa

serie 100 Heavy & Fortress Artillery 30 of the 72 regiments
9 of the 22 Army Corps Heavy Artillery : 101e 102e 103e 104e 107e 108e 120e 123e 124e
141e to 149e are all horsed
150e to 170e are the Fortress Artillery Regiments of the Maginot Line
171e to 174e and 181e to 197e are all motorised = 21

serie 200 Divisional Heavy Artillery Regiments with only 2 groups instead of usually 3
14 of the 62 regiments : 201e 202e 211e 215e 216e 225e 230e 242e 289e 291e 293e 294e 296e 297e

serie 300, 29 regiments all motorised not including the particular case of the Railway Artillery (370e to 374e)

would give around 96 of ~261 regts

not including Railway AAA and Colonial Artillery
Hi, Loic, did 75mm RAP (Portee Artillery Regiment) mean 75mm field gun mounted on truck act like SP gun ? Thank

Carl Schwamberger
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 7327
Joined: 02 Sep 2006 20:31
Location: USA

Re: French motorized divisions??

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 07 Feb 2020 02:23

I thought the 75mm Portee Artillery was a the cannon on a tracked chassis, but cannot find and references to this or photographs. There are photos of 47mm guns mounted on tracked vehicles without shields Look for the 'Lorraine Anti Char', or the 'Lorraine 37'

User avatar
Loïc
Member
Posts: 826
Joined: 14 Jun 2003 03:38
Location: Riom Auvergne & Bourbonnais France

Re: French motorized divisions??

Post by Loïc » 07 Feb 2020 15:15

hello

the 75mm porté units means basically transporté - transported on trucks (as GBM colorized card cover shows) and need small tractors to move the piece once on the soil or to put it on the truck as you see with Manuferey's picture and thread below
this Artillery branch is considered in 1939 as quite obsolete and unpratical so several RAP portés in 1940 were converted into truck-drawn type units
http://atf40.1fr1.net/t9678-batterie-d- ... -agricoles
couv_g10.jpg
Image
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Kelvin
Member
Posts: 2640
Joined: 06 Apr 2007 14:49

Re: French motorized divisions??

Post by Kelvin » 08 Feb 2020 13:53

Loïc wrote:
07 Feb 2020 15:15
hello

the 75mm porté units means basically transporté - transported on trucks (as GBM colorized card cover shows) and need small tractors to move the piece once on the soil or to put it on the truck as you see with Manuferey's picture and thread below
this Artillery branch is considered in 1939 as quite obsolete and unpratical so several RAP portés in 1940 were converted into truck-drawn type units
http://atf40.1fr1.net/t9678-batterie-d- ... -agricoles
couv_g10.jpg
Image
Hello, Loic, thank for your help. :D

Return to “France 1919-1945”