French 75mm weapons

Discussions on all aspects of France during the Inter-War era and Second World War.
YAN
Member
Posts: 1113
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 15:11
Location: ENGLAND

French 75mm weapons

Post by YAN » 14 Mar 2007 17:13

Hi, the French used a lot of different 75mm between 1920 to 1940 apart from the mle 1897/33, mle 1928 they also used 75mm AA guns and a 75mm SPG also, has anybody got any info on these AA and SPGs I heard they were 75mm L/51 ?, Thanks Yan.

User avatar
David Lehmann
Member
Posts: 2863
Joined: 01 Apr 2002 10:50
Location: France

Post by David Lehmann » 14 Mar 2007 19:59

Hello,

Here are most of the 75mm guns used in 1940 :

===> TANKS

1) 75mm BS (Blockhaus Schneider) L/9.5
Used in FT17 BS
Theoretical rate of fire : 10-15 rpm
Telescopic sight : ?x (L.??? sight, field of view ?°)

Ammunition :
Obus explosif Mle1915 (HE)
Caliber : 75x241R mm
Weight of projectile : 5.550 kg (740g explosive)
V° = 220 m/s
equipped with the long RYG Mle1921 fuze for better anti-personal efficiency.

2) 75mm SA35 L/17.1
Renault B1 and B1bis hull gun
Theoretical rate of fire : 15 rpm (in a B1bis tank, RoF will be about 6 rpm with APHE and the 6 first HE shells, but 2-4 rpm probably with following HE shells, time to put the fuzes on the shells.)
Telescopic sight : two L.710 sights for the 75mm SA35 gun forming prismatic binocular sights (each sight with 3.5x magnification, field of view 11.15° and range ladders, adjustable drum up to 1600m for the HE shells and 1560m for the APHE shells).
Practical AT range : 800-1000m

Ammunition :
Obus de rupture Mle1910M (APHE)
Caliber : 75x241R mm
Weight of projectile : 6.400 kg (90g explosive)
Length of projectile : 239.5mm
V° = 475 m/s
Penetration : 40mm /30° at 400m
The APHE shell is intended to detonate once the armor has been penetrated. Because of the necessity for a hard point to APHE shells, the fuze is fitted into the base of the projectile. This fuze acts through inertia. As the shell passes up the barrel, either the shock of firing or the rapid rotation removes a safety device and arms the fuze. This fuze contains roughly a weight held by a spring. When the shell hits something hard, momentum throws the weight forward so it strikes the firing element of the fuze and thereby ignites the HE filler of the APHE shell.

Obus explosif Mle1915 (HE)
Caliber : 75x241R mm
Weight of projectile : 5.550 kg (740g explosive)
V° = 500 m/s
Equipped with the long RYG Mle1921 fuze for better anti-personal efficiency. This long fuze explains probably why there were only 6 armed shells in the B1bis and 6 longer emplacements for them in the ammunition racks.

The 75mm HE shells are able to destroy the armored cars, Panzer I and Panzer II and are very efficient at short range against the tracks and lower parts of the heavier tanks. The HE shell has a penetration of 17mm/30° even at 800m.

Accuracy of the 75mm SA35 gun :
10 shots at 400m : HxL = 30cm x 28cm


3) 75mm Mle1897 L/29.7
FCM-2C main gun
Theoretical rate of fire : 15 rpm
Telescopic sight : 2.5x (L.??? sight, field of view ?°)
Practical AT range : 800-1000m

Ammunition :
Obus de rupture Mle1910M (APHE)
caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 6.400 kg (90g explosive)
Length of projectile : 239.5mm
V° = 570 m/s
Penetration : 40mm /30° at 400m

Obus explosif Mle1915 (HE)
caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 5.550 kg (740g explosive)
V° = 505 m/s
Equipped with a long RYG 1921 fuze for better anti-personal efficiency.


===> FIELD / AT GUNS

1) Canon de 75mm (L/34.5) Mle1897
Type : field gun
Crew : 1 NCO + 6 men
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Length : 4.45m
Barrel length : L/34.5 (L/29.7 rifling)
Width : 1.51m
Weight in action : 1140 kg
Weight in travel : 1970 kg
Elevation : -11° to +20°
Traverse : 6°
Ready to fire in 5 minutes
Rate of fire : 15-18 rpm (up to 28 rpm in very intense fire during a short time)
Telescopic sight : ?x (L.??? sight, field of view ?°)

HE Shell
Maximum range : 9500 m (11100 m)
Projectile weight : 5.550 to 6.500 kg depending from different HE shells
V° : 575 m/s


2) 75mm L/34.5 Mle1897/33 (used in AT role)
Type : gun
Crew : 6 men + 1 NCO
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight in action : 1500 kg
Weight in travel : 1550 kg
Elevation : -6° to +50°
Traverse : 58°
Practical AT range : 800-1000m
Rate of fire : 15-18 rpm (up to 28 rpm in very intense fire during a short time)
Telescopic sight : ?x (L.??? sight, field of view ?°)

Ammunition :
Obus de rupture Mle1910M (APHE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 6.400 kg (90g explosive)
Length of projectile : 239.5mm
V° = 580 m/s
Practical AT range : 800-1000m
Penetration : 71.5mm /0° at 100m and 61.5mm /0° at 500m

Obus perforant AL (Allongé Lefèvre) Mle 1916 (APHE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.445 kg (350g explosive)
Length of projectile : 348mm
V° = 575 m/s
Practical AT range : 800m
Maximum range : 9500m
Penetration : 40mm /30° at 400m

Obus perforant AL (Allongé Lefèvre) Mle 1918 (APHE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.320 kg (325g explosive)
Length of projectile : 297mm
V° = 575 m/s
Practical AT range : 800m
Maximum range : 9500m
Penetration : 40mm /30° at 400m

The APHE shell is intended to detonate once the armor has been penetrated. Because of the necessity for a hard point to APHE shells, the fuze is fitted into the base of the projectile. This fuze acts through inertia. As the shell passes up the barrel, either the shock of firing or the rapid rotation removes a safety device and arms the fuze. This fuze contains roughly a weight held by a spring. When the shell hits something hard, momentum throws the weight forward so it strikes the firing element of the fuze and thereby ignites the HE filler of the APHE shell.

Obus explosif Mle1900N (HE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 5.400 kg (775g explosive)
Length of projectile : 280mm
V° = 575 m/s

Obus explosif Mle1915 (HE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 5.315 kg (740g explosive)
Length of projectile : 277mm
V° = 575 m/s

Obus explosif Mle1917 (HE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 6.125 kg (675g explosive)
Length of projectile : 303mm
V° = 577 m/s

Obus explosif Mle1918 (HE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 6.650 kg (435g explosive)
Length of projectile : 292mm
V° = 577 m/s

Obus explosif FA Mle1929 AL (HE)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 6.960 kg (363g explosive)
Length of projectile : 320mm
V° = 590 m/s

Obus à balles (canister shell) "A" Mle1897
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.240 kg (110g explosive and 261x12g hardened lead bullets)
V° = 535 m/s

Obus à balles (canister shell) "M" Mle1897/1911
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.400 kg (explosive and 290x12g hardened lead bullets) (with 30/55 M13 fuze)
V° = 535 m/s

Obus à balles (canister shell) "A" Mle1897/1917
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.400 kg (113g explosive and 228x hardened lead bullets) (with 30/55 M13 fuze)
V° = 535 m/s

Obus à balles (canister shell) Mle1926
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.240 kg (with 24/31 M16 or 24/31A M18 fuze)
V° = 535 m/s

Boîte à mitraille (shrapnel shell) Mle1913
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 7.250 kg
Efficient up to 300m against infantry

Obus fumigène Mle1915 (smoke shell)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
Weight of projectile : 5.315 kg (white phosphorous)
V° = 550 m/s

Obus éclairant Mle1916 (illuminating shell)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
DE 22/31 M9 fuze
time of illumination : 40 seconds

Obus incendiaire Mle1916 type G à charge mélangée (mixed charge incendiary shell)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
This shell had an instant fuze and included 6 tarred incendiary charges, black powder and lead bullets. It was therefore a combined explosive, incendiary and anti-personal shell. The lead bullets were probably able to pierce oil, fuel etc. tanks before the incendiary charges ignite fire.

Obus incendiaire Mle1916 type G à six feux (incendiary shell)
Caliber : 75x350R mm
This shell included 6 “thermite” incendiary charges burning during about 50 seconds, magnesium powder and black powder.


===> USED IN FORTIFICATIONS

a) 75mm guns in CASEMATES

In the blockhouses added to the observation means in the copulas and the gunsights there are generally two types of observation sights :
• type H : 1.2x magnification and field of view 49.50°
• type G : 3.5x magnification and field of view 11.70°

75mm Mle1929 (gun / howitzer)
Caliber : 75 mm
Barrel length : 2721mm
Elevation : -8° to +40°
Traverse : 45°
Telescopic sight : L.647
Rate of fire : 30 rpm (12 rpm in intensive fire)
Range : 12100m

75mm Mle1932 (à “pivot fictif”, with Nordenfeld breech) (gun / howitzer)
Caliber : 75 mm
Barrel length : 2421mm
Elevation : -8° to +40°
Traverse : 45°
Telescopic sight : L.656
Rate of fire : 30 rpm (12 rpm in intensive fire)
Range : 11900m

75mm Mle1932R (with Nordenfeld breech) (howitzer)
Caliber : 75 mm
Barrel length : 1555mm (Mle1905 barrel)
Elevation : -17° to +34°
Traverse : 45°
Telescopic sight : L.655
Rate of fire : 30 rpm (12 rpm in intensive fire)
Range : 9200m

75mm Mle1931 (mortar)
Caliber : 75 mm
Barrel length : 1371mm
Elevation : -3° to +35°
Traverse : 45°
Telescopic sight : L.634
Rate of fire : 30 rpm (12 rpm in intensive fire)
Range : 6000m

75mm Mle1933 (gun / howitzer)
Caliber : 75 mm
Barrel length : 2421mm
Elevation : -9° to +40°
Traverse : 45°
Telescopic sight : L.650
Rate of fire : 30 rpm (12 rpm in intensive fire)
Range : 11900m


b) 75mm guns in retractable TURRETS

75mm Mle1935 (x2) (gun / howitzer)
Caliber : 75 mm
Barrel length : 2421mm
Elevation : -2° to +40°
Traverse : 360°
Telescopic sight : ?
Rate of fire : 26 rpm in intensive fire
Range : 11900m

75mm Mle1932R (x2) (howitzer)
Caliber : 75 mm
Barrel length : 1555mm
Elevation : -5° to +35°
Traverse : 360°
Telescopic sight : L.655
Rate of fire : 26 rpm in intensive fire
Range : 9200m

75mm Mle1905R (x2) (gun / howitzer)
Caliber : 75 mm
Barrel length : 1555mm
Elevation : 0° to +30°
Traverse : 360°
Telescopic sight : ?
Rate of fire : 26 rpm in intensive fire
Range : 8200m


75mm guns ammunitions :

● Obus de rupture Mle1910M (APHE)
● Obus perforant AL (Allongé Lefèvre) Mle1916 (APHE)
● Obus perforant AL (Allongé Lefèvre) Mle1918 (APHE)

● Obus explosif Mle1900N (HE)
● Obus explosif Mle1915 (HE)
● Obus explosif Mle1917 (HE)
● Obus explosif Mle1918 (HE)
● Obus explosif FA Mle1929 AL (HE)

● Obus à balle "A" Mle1897 (canister)
● Obus à balle "M" Mle1897/1911 (canister)
● Obus à balle "A" Mle1897/1917 (canister)

● Obus fumigène Mle1915 (smoke shell)
● Obus éclairant Mle1916 (illuminating shell)
● Obus incendiaire Mle1916 type G (incendiary shell)

In the Maginot line the ammunition dotation for the 75mm guns/howitzers/mortars was theoretically of :
• 70% HE shells
• 27% canister and shrapnel shells
• 3% APHE shells
• various other shells (smoke, illuminating an incendiary) were probably mostly issued to field artillery


===> MOUNTAIN GUN

Canon de 75M Mle1928 Schneider
Caliber : 75x190R mm
Barrel length : 1480 mm (1060 mm rifling)
Weight in action : 660kg
Elevation : -11° to +40°
Traverse : 10°
Rate of fire : up to 28 rpm
Max Range : 9000 m
Crew : 1 NCO + 6 men
First introduced after 1908 under the Schneider designation "75 M.P.C. Maroc'. Variants of this gun were exported to Russia, Rumania, Serbia and Montenegro. Issued to French Army in 1919 to replace the 65mm mountain guns. Modified after 1919, the gun became the definite 75M Mle1928 gun. 156 of these guns were in service in the French alpine troops in May 1940. In German hands it became the 7.5cm GebK 237(f).


===> AA GUNS

Canon CA 75mm PF Mle1915 (fixed on plateform)
Calibre : 75x350R mm
Barrel length : 2720 mm (2230 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 2219 kg
Rate of fire : 12 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 580 m/s (projectile of 6 kg)
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : 0° to +75°
Maximum range : 6500 m

Autocanon de 75mm Mle1913/34 (self-propelled)
Calibre : 75x350R mm
Barrel length : 2720 mm (2230 mm rifling)
Weight : 5880 kg
Rate of fire : 12 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 580 m/s (projectile of 6 kg)
Traverse : 237°
Elevation : 0° to +70°
Maximum range : 6500 m
In 1940 57 AA batteries were using the Autocanon de 75mm Mle1913/1934 ... A total of 236 of these SPAAs were used on 10th May 1940. The Germans captured many and still used 45 of them in May 1944. Several of these SPAA guns were even sometimes used in direct AT role. There is an exemple on the Aa canal between Gravelines and Watten : 2 of these 75mm SPAA guns (402e RADCA) were defending the Saint-Folquin bridge on 24th May 1940. They were supporting the 2nd battalion of the 137e RI against an assault of the "Grossdeutschland" regiment supported by elements of the 1.PzD. They managed to destroy 3 German AFVs.

Canon CA 75mm Mle1917/34 (Schneider)
Caliber : 75x518R mm
Barrel length : 4000 mm (3250 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 4800 kg
Weight traveling : 4940 kg
Rate of fire : 20 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 700 m/s
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : 0° to +70°
Maximum range : 8000 m

Canon CA 75mm Mle1930
Calibre : 75x518R mm
Barrel length : 4000 mm (3250 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 3800 kg
Weight traveling : 4200 kg
Rate of fire : 20 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 700 m/s
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : -1° to +70°
Maximum range : 8000 m

Canon CA 75mm Mle1932
Caliber : 75x518R mm
Barrel length : 4050 mm (3250 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 3800 kg
Weight traveling : 5300 kg
Rate of fire : 25 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 700 m/s
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : -5° to +70°
Maximum range : 8000 m
The crew consisted in 9 men. Also adopted by Belgium under the name "75 mm ABS/FRC modèle 1936"

Canon CA 75mm Mle1933
Caliber : 75x518R mm
Barrel length : 4000 mm (3250 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 3730 kg
Weight traveling : 4200 kg
Rate of fire : 20 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 700 m/s
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : 0° to +75°
Maximum range : 8000 m

Canon CA 75mm Mle1939
Caliber : 75x518R mm
Barrel length : 4000 mm (3250 mm rifling)
Battle-station weight : 3250 kg
Rate of fire : 20 rpm
Muzzle velocity : 700 m/s
Traverse : 360°
Elevation : 0° to +90°
Maximum range : 8000 m

75mm AA guns available on April 30, 1939 in metropolitan France: 1695
Mobilized on May 10, 1940: 1607
Delivered in May / June 1940: 60


Regards,

David
Last edited by David Lehmann on 17 Mar 2007 20:36, edited 1 time in total.

YAN
Member
Posts: 1113
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 15:11
Location: ENGLAND

Post by YAN » 15 Mar 2007 15:27

What a great result, big thanks David, I keep on reading about a gun called 75mm Schneider nle 1914 but I cant find any data, is it the same as the 75mm Puteaux mle 1897/33 ?, one more thing David, are the above AA guns all 75mm L/51, because this weapon keeps cropping up in my French data ?.
Many thanks Yan.

User avatar
David Lehmann
Member
Posts: 2863
Joined: 01 Apr 2002 10:50
Location: France

Post by David Lehmann » 15 Mar 2007 20:24

Hello,

Length of the barrel in caliber (L/xx)

Such a value can vary from one country to an other, which explains sometimes the discrepancies from one source to an other.

AFAIK, the USA and the UK measure the length of the gun barrel from the mouth of the chamber to the end of the barrel (without the muzzle brake). That is the bore length = the rifling + the length of the chamber.

Most continental European countries (France, Germany, Italy etc.) measure the length of the barrel from the rear of the breech to the muzzle, in that case the considered length is bigger and close to the overall length.

Regards,

David

YAN
Member
Posts: 1113
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 15:11
Location: ENGLAND

Post by YAN » 16 Mar 2007 10:50

So will the 75mm mle 1914 have the same stats as the 75mm mle 1897 then David, Thanks Yan.

RichTO90
Member
Posts: 4238
Joined: 22 Dec 2003 18:03

Post by RichTO90 » 16 Mar 2007 14:22

David Lehmann wrote:AFAIK, the USA and the UK measure the length of the gun barrel from the mouth of the chamber to the end of the barrel (without the muzzle brake). That is the bore length = the rifling + the length of the chamber.
Yes, pretty much David that is correct for the US. As I mention in the other post that touches on this subject the US Army Ordnance standard for measuring the caliber was the "length of tube" so essentially was from the face of the chamber to the end of the muzzle, not including muzzle brake.

Pachy
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: 22 Jun 2005 12:45
Location: Paris

Post by Pachy » 16 Mar 2007 14:36

YAN wrote:What a great result, big thanks David, I keep on reading about a gun called 75mm Schneider nle 1914 but I cant find any data, is it the same as the 75mm Puteaux mle 1897/33 ?
No, they are not related.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_7 ... _Schneider
are the above AA guns all 75mm L/51, because this weapon keeps cropping up in my French data ?.
No, there are basically two generations of 75 mm AA weapons. The WWI weapons use the same barrel as the mle 1897 field gun. They are:

canon de 75 mm CA mle 1915 sur plate-forme
canon de 75 mm CA mle 1917
autocanon de 75 mm mle 1913 (self-propelled on De Dion Bouton chassis)

(CA stands for "contre-aéroplanes" - anti-aircraft)

The modernized weapons use a longer barrel called the mle 1928 (4000 mm in length - that's 50-something calibres). They are:

canon de 75 mm CA mle 1917/34 (modernized mle 1917 with longer barrel and upgraded fire control system, but old carriage)
canon de 75 mm CA mle 1930
canon de 75 mm CA mle 1933
canon de 75 mm CA mle 1932 (most modern variant, with modern carriage allowing for high towing speeds and semi-automatic breech)

The autocanon did receive the modernized fire control system, but proved too light to receive the longer gun. Such modernised SPAA combinations was known as

autocanon de 75 mm mle 1913/34

HTH

YAN
Member
Posts: 1113
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 15:11
Location: ENGLAND

Post by YAN » 16 Mar 2007 14:36

I have read somewhere that thew French 47mm SA-35 Tank Gun was L/34 but I sure David has it at L/32, correct me if I am wrong ?, I wonder if David can tell me the difference between the Renault D-1 & D-2 Heavy Infantry Tanks.
Thanks Yan.

Pachy
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: 22 Jun 2005 12:45
Location: Paris

Post by Pachy » 16 Mar 2007 15:03

The D1 was originally a replacement for the FT 17 with one extra, third crew member (radio operator). It was still considered a "light tank".

http://www.chars-francais.net/archives/renault_d1.htm

The D2 basically was a modernized D1, though at 20 tons it's not really a light tank any more :) A limited production batch was ordered "just in case" as talks were under way for an international treaty limiting tanks tonnage, just like there was one for warships. Eventually the talks failed, the B tank project was given the green light, and the French army decided to launch a new 2-man light tank programme. The D2's career was therefore very much limited.

http://www.chars-francais.net/archives/renault_d2.htm

YAN
Member
Posts: 1113
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 15:11
Location: ENGLAND

Post by YAN » 16 Mar 2007 15:27

Hi Pachy, while we are on the subject, do you know the all round armour data of French armoured cars, I can allways find there maximum armour but not anything more detailed.
see below.

White M1917/18
Laffly S-15 TOE AMD
Laffly AMD 50AM
Laffly AMD 80AM
Panhard-165/175 TOE

I have found the maximum Armour to these AFVs through Davids data but I cannot find any more then that.
Thanks Yan.

Pachy
Member
Posts: 59
Joined: 22 Jun 2005 12:45
Location: Paris

Post by Pachy » 16 Mar 2007 15:42

YAN wrote:Hi Pachy, while we are on the subject, do you know the all round armour data of French armoured cars, I can allways find there maximum armour but not anything more detailed.
French sources, including primary sources I could get my hand on, do not give detailed armour data. Published detailed values such as ones found in Jentz' book are riddled with errors. So generally, this kind of data is not available, though David managed to gather believable values for a few vehicles, by compiling numerous sources. There may be complete, authoritative sources hiding somewhere in the archives, but I'm afraid nobody's researching this :|

YAN
Member
Posts: 1113
Joined: 24 Aug 2006 15:11
Location: ENGLAND

Post by YAN » 16 Mar 2007 16:11

Thanks Pachy. Yan.

RuPo
Member
Posts: 397
Joined: 06 Nov 2005 09:03
Location: Holland, IJmuiden

Re: French 75mm weapons

Post by RuPo » 10 Sep 2010 08:42

Hello All,

Is it easy to say for wich gun the Fusees De 24/31 RYG Mle 1918 (CF Lot 31 1940) are?

Thanks, Ruud
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
ain92
Member
Posts: 346
Joined: 04 Jul 2012 18:06
Location: Saint Petersburg, Russia

Re: French 75mm weapons

Post by ain92 » 28 Jan 2013 12:29

Hello.
What about "7.5 cm Flak M 36 (f) (Ex-french Canon mle 36)" mentioned in the Factbook? Was it Puteaux gun like Mle 30, Bourges like Mle 32 or Schneider like Mle 33?
With best regards, Ilya.

eppanzer
Member
Posts: 199
Joined: 14 Jan 2006 21:32
Location: Lithuania

Re: French 75mm weapons

Post by eppanzer » 31 Jan 2013 17:49

Did the Schneider company produce 75 mm field guns Mle 1897? At the most Lithuanian publications of the interwar period 75 mm Mle 1897 is mentioned as "75 mm Mle 1897 Schneider". According to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_7 ... %A8le_1897 Schneider had no connections to 75 mm Mle 1897. Any comments?

Return to “France 1919-1945”