ID of French artillery piece

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ain92
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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by ain92 » 20 Feb 2014 16:57

jopaerya wrote:Hello Friends

The wheels look very much like the Russian one's

Regards Jos
Hello, what wheels are you talking about? GAZ-AA, ZIS-5, YaTB-4, KPM-series or something else?
With best regards, Ilya.

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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by jopaerya » 20 Feb 2014 17:23

The wheels of the gun , regards Jos

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ain92
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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by ain92 » 20 Feb 2014 19:08

jopaerya wrote:The wheels of the gun , regards Jos
Well, maybe my English is not good enough. I wrote these abbreviations not as vehicles names, but wheels patterns.
With best regards, Ilya.

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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by jopaerya » 20 Feb 2014 19:18

Hi Ilya

It's not your English but my lack of knowledge of Russian wheels . I thought
the wheels on the picture's had handles just like on some Russian guns .

Regards Jos

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ain92
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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by ain92 » 20 Feb 2014 19:52

jopaerya wrote:Hi Ilya

It's not your English but my lack of knowledge of Russian wheels . I thought
the wheels on the picture's had handles just like on some Russian guns .

Regards Jos
I can't see the handles (could you mark them please?) but AFAIK that the only pattern that had handles was KPM-series.
According to my information these series were started in early 1930s by developing a steel wheel (probably with hard rubber tyres) to replace the wooden wheels on 76-mm regimental gun M1927. In 1936 a wheel with sponged rubber (so-called "GK", ГК) tyre for 76-mm divisional guns M1902/30 entered serial production (later a visually indistinguishable modification also accepted for F-22 M1936, and 122-mm divisional howitzer M1938 was initially designed for such wheels, and so on).
Wheels of these series had different width and bearing capacity. They had overall diameter around 1.2–1.3 m, which is slightly more than 1.15 m (11.25x20 tyres) of Berliet GDR.
With best regards, Ilya.

nuyt
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Re: A mysterious artillery piece of French resistance

Post by nuyt » 06 Sep 2014 15:37

ain92 wrote:Nobody for the last question? If so, I'll post a more enigmatic picture. I think the photo was made during the parade of the Armée secrète in Saint-Étienne on 25 August 1944.
Image
The artillery piece towed by a Berliet GDRAG seems to be an improvisation made for anti-tank purposes from a tipping part of some navy, coastal or AA gun of appr. 75-mm calibre (a bit similar to late modification of Cannone da 75/46, but not an exact fit) and a carriage of some WWI heavy field artillery piece (neither 105 L Mle 1913 or 155 C Mle 1917).
I think now it is the 57mm Zis-2 Anti tank gun (in towing position) on the carriage of the 76mm 1902/30 field gun.

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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by Alanmccoubrey » 06 Sep 2014 16:39

Nuyt, is there a "step" in the barrel of this mystery gun or is it just an optical illusion ? The breech end certain looks like a Zis 2 or 3 to me though.
Alan

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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by nuyt » 06 Sep 2014 20:22

Dont know if its stepped, at first I thought so as well..
On second thought the chances that it is a 76mm Zis 3 on the boxtrail carriage are higher than a 57mm in France I reckon.

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Manuferey
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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by Manuferey » 06 Sep 2014 22:29

For those who can read French, this gun was discussed on the French forum ATF 40. While no definite identification was found, the conclusion was that the gun could be one of the 75 mm "puissant" guns from St-Chamond derived from the 75 mm Mle 1918 St-Chamond. Several of these guns could have been hidden from the Germans by the French during the Occupation :
http://atf40.forumculture.net/t7509-une ... 1944#60845

Also fron the same ATF40 thread, the truck/lorry is not a Berliet GDRAG since the final G means "Gazogene" i.e. wood-burning and it is probably not a GDRA truck as too light for it. It could be a Berliet GDM .

Emmanuel

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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by nuyt » 07 Sep 2014 09:10

Hi Emanuel, I have read the French forum as well and they say the CARRIAGE (affût) resembles a St Chamond 1918 gun carriage, not the gun as such. Another person like me also comes up with the Russian 76mm 1902/30 boxtrail carriage (added after 1930 on the advice of the Rheinmetall Bütast engineers working in Russia, to increase the range of the gun).

It would be interesting to ID the German units in and around St Etienne. I have googled a bit but the area appears to have been an important armament production centre (St Chamond and FAMAS) and there were some reserve units. Who fought there in August 44 I dont know. The Berliet and gun could easily been just captured from the Germans and not come from CDM stocks.

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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by Sturm78 » 02 Dec 2016 23:36

Hi all,

Any idea about the gun on the red circle ? :?

Image from Ebay
Sturm78
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Manuferey
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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by Manuferey » 03 Dec 2016 03:24

Sturm78 wrote:Hi all,
Any idea about the gun on the red circle ? :?
Image from Ebay
Sturm78
The protection plate and the hand wheel next to the breach are the same ones as for the French 25 mm Mle 1937 (compare with the 25 mm Mle 1937 on the right of the picture). The tires seem identical to some versions of the French 47 mm Mle 1937. And the wheels seem to come from the 47 mm Mle 1936 Schneider. See pictures on the following thread ("Romanian AT gun"):
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=149160

Therefore, I think the gun is a 25 mm Mle 1937 but with different wheels, probably hastily put together from left-overs of the Romanian 47 mm Mle 1937 export order, and a different shield. It would explain why the gun circled by Sturm78 in red and the identical one to its right were placed with other captured 25 mm French AT guns by the Germans. :idea:

Emmanuel

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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by Sturm78 » 03 Dec 2016 14:47

Emmanuel wrote

The protection plate and the hand wheel next to the breach are the same ones as for the French 25 mm Mle 1937 (compare with the 25 mm Mle 1937 on the right of the picture). The tires seem identical to some versions of the French 47 mm Mle 1937. And the wheels seem to come from the 47 mm Mle 1936 Schneider. See pictures on the following thread ("Romanian AT gun"):
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=149160

Therefore, I think the gun is a 25 mm Mle 1937 but with different wheels, probably hastily put together from left-overs of the Romanian 47 mm Mle 1937 export order, and a different shield. It would explain why the gun circled by Sturm78 in red and the identical one to its right were placed with other captured 25 mm French AT guns by the Germans. :idea:
Uummmhhh....probably you are right, Emmanuel

Thanks for your answer

Regards Sturm78

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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by Sturm78 » 13 Dec 2016 20:15

Emmanuel wrote
The protection plate and the hand wheel next to the breach are the same ones as for the French 25 mm Mle 1937 (compare with the 25 mm Mle 1937 on the right of the picture). The tires seem identical to some versions of the French 47 mm Mle 1937. And the wheels seem to come from the 47 mm Mle 1936 Schneider. See pictures on the following thread ("Romanian AT gun"):
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=149160

Therefore, I think the gun is a 25 mm Mle 1937 but with different wheels, probably hastily put together from left-overs of the Romanian 47 mm Mle 1937 export order, and a different shield. It would explain why the gun circled by Sturm78 in red and the identical one to its right were placed with other captured 25 mm French AT guns by the Germans. :idea:
Hi Emmanuel,

Another image of this rare gun (from Ebay):

Sturm78
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Manuferey
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Re: ID of French artillery piece

Post by Manuferey » 14 Dec 2016 01:45

Sturm78,

Very interesting to see the front of this unknown gun. It looks like an ad-hoc assembly based on the 25 mm barrel. Let me check with a French forum on the French Army in 1940.

Emmanuel

The use of a larger cylinder tappering into a smaller barrel reminds me of two other AT guns:

- the 45mm PTP M1941 (USSR)
Source: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... start=2055
Image

- the HiH Siderius 5cm L50 (The Netherlands)
Source: http://www.network54.com/Forum/330333/m ... er+picture
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