French Air Force disposition on 10 May 1940

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Peter K
Host - Allied sections
Posts: 3656
Joined: 12 Jul 2006 19:17
Location: Poland

Re: French Air Force disposition on 10 May 1940

Post by Peter K » 09 Sep 2011 15:21

Thanks for further explanations Bronsky!
it does not correspond to 50+ German planes actually downed.
Yes, I do realize this. ;)

musec
Member
Posts: 40
Joined: 19 Aug 2002 11:54
Location: uk

Re: French Air Force disposition on 10 May 1940

Post by musec » 10 Sep 2011 10:54

Hello Bronsky,

I have now had a few days to look over your list and would like to post my own version of your list showing additions to construction numbers and civil registrations and highlighting some possible mistaken transcriptions in the original document - which are at the same time necessarily questions to anyone who can provide a definitive answer to the id of the aircraft in question where I have entered either/or. I have not made any significant alterations for the data kindly provided on the C.445 or C.635 as while the operating units are of interest to me many of these machines appear to bear military id's and in any event I lack the reference sources to do the checking.My changes come as a result of comparing the list with Andre Hauet's two volumes of Les Avions Caudron and Air Britains list of French civil registrations at http://www.ab-ix.co.uk/f-aaaa.pdf

To the moderator I also wonder if there is not a case for having a database of impressed French civil aircraft here on AHF, simialar to that for Luftwaffe Stammkennzeichen at http://www.luftwaffe-experten.org/stammkennzeichen.html I believe it would be a great data source and possibly contribute towards a complete list of French civil impressments which I do not believe has been previously assembled, unless anyone knows differently. Any thoughts on this from the Moderator?

Anyway here is my amended list :

Tarbes Caudron 251 T251 D Section d'avions de liaison
Auch Caudron C.232 10/6528 F-ALBU RP Ecole du Blanc
Brignoles - Fayence Caudron C270 Luciole 86 RP
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C.400 6857 F-APPE RP
Either Toulouse-Francazal Cri-Cri 436 F-APSH RP Cri-Cri
Or Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C275 Luciole F-ARSH RP C.275
Albi - Gaillac F.402 7425.47 F-AMYG D E.E.P. 44 F.402
Auch Caudron C272 Luciole 7979 F-AMHB RP Ecole du Blanc
Carcassonne Caudron C275 Luciole 8033 F-ARVC D B.A. Tarbes
Carcassonne Caudron C275 Luciole 7587 F-AQGS D B.A. Tarbes
Clermont-Ferrand - ARAA F.391 7385 F-AMTH RP F.391
Clermont-Ferrand - ARAA Caudron C272/3 6829 F-AMSI RP
St-Cyr l'Ecole, repliée à Oloron Caudron C275 Luciole 0 D E.A.A. 303
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 759 W.073 D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7043 F-ARYM D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7558 F-AQFN D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7587 F-AQGR D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7610 F-AQHP W.961 D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7708 F-AQQN D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7709 F-AQQO D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7886 F-ARJQ D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7908 F-ARKM D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7924 F-ARKY W.192 D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7925 F-ARKZ D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7939 F-ARLN D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7963 F-ARVH W.231 D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7972 F-ARMU D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 7996 F-ARNU D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 8000 F-ARMS D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 8013 F-ARSH W.281 D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 8035 F-ARYE D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 8036 F-ARVF W.304 D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 8042 F-ARYL D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 8056 F-ARXA W.342 D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 8064 F-ARKI D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 8086 F-ARYV D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 8100 F-ARYT Y.368 D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 8135 Q.303 D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 8142 Q.310 D E.E.P. 39
Tarbes Caudron C275 Luciole 8143 Q.313 D E.E.P. 39
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7574 F-AQGE W.054 RP E.E.P. 40
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7652 F-AQLM RP E.E.P. 40
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7932 F-ARLG W.200 RP E.E.P. 40
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7892 F-ARJQ D E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole Q.317 D E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole W.139 RP E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole W.139 RP E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole Q.318 D E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole W.964 D E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole W.198 D E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole W.318 D E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole W.372 D E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole W.325 RP E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole W.199 RP E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole W.148 E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole W.199 RP E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole W.325 RP E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole Q.314 D E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole Q.316 D E.E.P. 41 Montauban
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7478 F-APLQ RP E.E.P. 42
Either Albi - Gaillac MS.237 431 F-AROT RP E.E.P. 42 MS.237
Or Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7592 F-AQGX RP E.E.P. 42 C.275
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7659 F-AQLT W.094 RP E.E.P. 42
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7672 F-AQPC RP E.E.P. 42
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7692 F-AQPX W.124 RP E.E.P. 42
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7700 F-AQQF RP E.E.P. 42
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7715 F-AQQU RP E.E.P. 42
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7717 F-AQQX RP E.E.P. 42
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7904 F-ARKD RP E.E.P. 42
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7939 F-ARLN RP E.E.P. 42
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7944 F-ARLS W.212 RP E.E.P. 42
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7981 F-ARNF RP E.E.P. 42
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 8004 F-ARRS RP E.E.P. 42
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole W.246 RP E.E.P. 42
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7485 F-APLM D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7650 F-AQLK D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7887 F-ARJL D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7946 F-ARLU D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7955 F-ARME D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7960 F-ARMJ W.228 D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7966 F-ARMP D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 8074 F-ARXS D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 8081 F-ARVA D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 8106 F-ARZA W.374 D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 8121 F-ARZP D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 8123 F-ARZR D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 8125 F-ARZT D E.E.P. 44
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole ARMQ RP E.E.P. 45
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 8011 F-ASRF RP E.E.P. 45
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole W.373 RP E.E.P. 45
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole ARMD RP E.E.P. 45
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole APLB RP E.E.P. 45
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole AQPL D E.E.P. 45
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole ARJT RP E.E.P. 45
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole ARNN RP E.E.P. 45
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole W.038 RP E.E.P. 45
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 7463 F-APLB RP E.E.P. 45
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole ARJI D E.E.P. 45
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole W.135 D E.E.P. 45
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole W.033 RP E.E.P. 45
Albi - Castres Caudron C275 Luciole 7657 F-AQLR W.092 RF E.E.P. 46
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 7656? F-AQLQ W.091 D E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 7547 F-AQFC W.028 D E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 7568 F-AQFY W.048 D E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 7585 F-AQGP W.065 D E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 7677 F-AQPH W.104 RP E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 7687 F-AQPR W.112 D E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 7914 F-ARKN W.182 D E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 7921 F-ARKU W.129 RF E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 7952 F-ARMB W.220 RF E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 8003 F-ARRR W.271 RP E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 8092 F-ARYL W.360 RP E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 8136 Q.304 D E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 8137 Q.305 D E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole W.262 RP E.E.P. 47
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 7915 F-ARKO W.183 RP E.E.P. Graulhet
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 7922 F-ARKV W.190 RP E.E.P. Graulhet
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 8021 F-ARSP W.289 RP E.E.P. Graulhet
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 8052 F-ARVV W.320 RP E.E.P. Graulhet
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 8107 F-ARZB W.375 RP E.E.P. Graulhet
Valence - Espalion Caudron C275 Luciole 7476 F-APLO D E.P. 24
Valence - Espalion Caudron C275 Luciole 7876 F-ARJA W.369 D E.P. 24
Valence - Espalion Caudron C275 Luciole 7984 F-ARJI D E.P. 24
Valence - Espalion Caudron C275 Luciole 7991 F-ARNP D E.P. 24
Valence - Espalion Caudron C275 8001 F-ARRP D E.P. 24
Either Valence - Espalion Caudron C275 8024 F-ARSS D E.P. 24
Or Valence - Espalion Caudron C275 8040 F-ARVI D E.P. 24
Either Valence - Espalion Caudron C275 7211-29 F-AOFH D E.P. 24
Or Valence - Espalion Caudron C275 7476 F-APLO D E.P. 24
Valence - Espalion Caudron C275 Luciole AOF4 D E.P. 24
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7424 W.945 D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7431 F-APLT D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7483 F-APLV W.022 D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7572 F-AQGC W.052 D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7573 F-AQGD D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7576 F-AQGG D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7612 F-AQHR W.944 D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7671 F-AQPB D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7689 F-AQPT W.114 D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7891 F-ARJP D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7917 F-ARKQ D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7927 F-ARLB D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7990 F-ARNO RP E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 8050 F-ARVT D E.P. 32
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 8066 F-ARXK D E.P. 32
Périgueux Caudron C275 Luciole 7929 F-ARLD RP E.P. 33
Périgueux Caudron C275 Luciole 8037 F-ARVG RP E.P. 33
Calvi Caudron C275 Luciole 7491 F.APHJ D E.P. Ajaccio et S.A.L. C.272/5
Calvi Caudron C275 Luciole 7683 F-AQPN D E.P. Ajaccio et S.A.L.
Calvi Caudron C275 Luciole 7986 F-ARNK D E.P. Ajaccio et S.A.L.
Calvi Caudron C275 Luciole W.339 RF E.P. Ajaccio et S.A.L.
Calvi Caudron C275 Luciole W.059 D E.P. Ajaccio et S.A.L.
Calvi Caudron C275 Luciole 7682 F-AQPM RF E.P. Ajaccio et S.A.L.
Calvi Caudron C275 Luciole W.340 D E.P. Ajaccio et S.A.L.
Calvi Caudron C275 Luciole 7984 F-ARNI D E.P. Ajaccio et S.A.L.
Calvi Caudron C275 Luciole 7580 F-AQGK RF E.P. Ajaccio et S.A.L.
Calvi Caudron C275 Luciole 7414 F-APBL RF E.P. Ajaccio et S.A.L.
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7706 F-AQQL D Ecole 32, viennent de l'école 28 repliée
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7909 F-ARKI D Ecole 32, viennent de l'école 28 repliée
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7918 F-ARKR D Ecole 32, viennent de l'école 28 repliée
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7956 F-ARMF D Ecole 32, viennent de l'école 28 repliée
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 7980 F-ARNE D Ecole 32, viennent de l'école 28 repliée
Moissac Caudron C275 Luciole 8014 F-ARSI D Ecole 32, viennent de l'école 28 repliée
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 7464 F-APLC W.003 RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 7562 F-AQFR RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 7705 F-AQQK RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 7707 F-AQQM RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 7935 F-ARLJ W.203 RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 7979 F-ARND W.247 RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 8017 F-ARSL RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 8082 F-ARYB W.350 RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 8116 F-ARZK W.384 RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 8117 F-ARZL W.385 RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 8134 Q.302 RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 8138 Q.306 RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 8139 Q.307 RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 8140 Q.308 RP Ecole du Blanc
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 7599/25 F-AQHE RP Ecole du Blanc
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 8046 F-ARVP RP Inconnu
Albi - E.E.P. 47 Caudron C275 Luciole 8108 F-ARZC W.376 D Inconnu
Auch Caudron C275 Luciole 7969 F-.ARMS RP Inconnu
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C275 Luciole 7606 F-AQHL RP Parc
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C275 Luciole 7649 F-AQLJ RP Parc
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C275 Luciole 7994 F-ARNS RP Parc
Albi - Castres Caudron C275 Luciole 7462 F-APLA W.001 D
Albi - Castres Caudron C275 Luciole 7651 F-AQLL D
Albi - Castres Caudron C275 Luciole 7686 F-AQPQ D
Albi - Castres Caudron C275 Luciole 7894 F-ARJS W.163 D
Albi - Castres Caudron C275 Luciole 7916 F-ARKP D
Albi - Castres Caudron C275 Luciole 7936 F-ARLK W.204 D
Albi - Castres Caudron C275 Luciole 8070 F-ARXO D
Albi - Castres Caudron C275 Luciole 8090 F-ARYJ W.358 D
Albi - Castres Caudron C275 Luciole 8091 F-ARYK D
Albi - Castres Caudron C275 Luciole 8098 F-ARYR D
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C275 Luciole 8078 F-ARXX RP
Bergerac Caudron C275 Luciole 7975 F-ARMZ RF
Limoges Caudron C275 Luciole 7684 F-AQPO W-109 RP
Either Limoges Caudron C275 Luciole 8076 F-ARXU RP
Or Limoges Caudron C275 Luciole 7581 F-AQGL RP
Limoges Caudron C275 Luciole 104-103 F-MMM RF
Pau Caudron C275 Luciole 7276 F-AOPC D C.272/4
Pau Caudron C275 Luciole 7290 F-AOPQ D C.272/5
Pau Caudron C275 Luciole 6928 F.ANAH D C.272/4
Lézignan Caudron C400 Phalène 6858 F-ANTZ T-015 D 36e Escadre
Lézignan Caudron C400 Phalène 6811 F-AMIY RP 36e Escadre C.282/8
Clermont-Ferrand - ARAA Caudron C400 Phalène 6867 F-APPN T-024 RP E.A.A. 301
Albi - Castres Caudron C400 Phalène 6844 F-ANJH D E.E.P. 46 C.282/8
Either Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C400 Phalène 3793 F-ANLT D Groupe de Protection Bordeaux P.585
Or Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C400 Phalène 6970 F-ANCT D Groupe de Protection Bordeaux C.410
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C400 Phalène F.ANND RP Groupe I/55 Balloon?
Auch Caudron C400 Phalène 7069 F-ANTN RP Section Sanitaire C.510
E.E.P. n°47 Caudron C400 Phalène 7298 F.AOQE D C.480
Albi - E.E.P. n°47 Caudron C400 Phalène 6963 F-ANCM RF C.410
Limoges Caudron C400 Phalène 6768 F-AMKR M-045 D C.286/2
Either Pau Caudron C400 Phalène 0 F-APDP D MS.138
Or Pau Caudron C400 Phalène 0 6892 F-APOP T-019 D C.400
Pau Caudron C400 Phalène 4 6847 F-ANJI T-004 D C.400
Pau Caudron C400 Phalène 6747 F-AMIQ D C.282/8
Moissac Caudron C410 Super Phalène 6771 F-AMKU X.082 D Ecole 32 C.282/8
Lézignan Caudron C441 Goéland 8397 T-943 RP B.A. Pau
Lézignan Caudron C441 Goéland 7152 T-963 D
Lézignan Caudron C441 Goéland 9010 F-484 RP
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C445 Goéland 0 F.482 D 19e Groupement
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C445 Goéland 0 T.486 D 1ère D.A.
Carcassonne Caudron C445 Goéland 7543 F-APYU D 2e R.A.
Istres Caudron C445 Goéland 25 T.889 RP D.E. B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C445 47 8365 F-BACU T.911 RP D.E. B.A. Istres
Pau Caudron C445 Goéland 11 T.875 D E.M. 3e RA
Pau Caudron C445 Goéland 235 F.574 D E.M. 3e RA
Pau Caudron C445 Goéland 89 T.953 D E.M. Salon
Salon Caudron C445 Goéland 73 T.937 RF E.M.S.
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C445 8996 F-BAAK F.470 D Escadre instruction Aulnat
Pau Caudron C445 Goéland 22 P.886 D G.A.O. 522
Pau Caudron C445 Goéland 119 P.108 D G.A.O. 522
Pau Caudron C445 Goéland 125 P.114 D G.A.O. 522
Pau Caudron C445 Goéland 174 P.163 D G.A.O. 522
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C445 Goéland 8989 T.463 D Groupe I/55
Tarbes Caudron C445 Goéland 8997 F471 D Groupement 4
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C445 Goéland 6 T.251 D Inconnu
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C445 Goéland 8990 T.454 D Inconnu
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C445 Goéland 9003 F.477 D Inconnu
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C445 Goéland 9193 0 D Inconnu
Périgueux Caudron C445 Goéland F.488 D Maison Caudron
Périgueux Caudron C445 Goéland F.489 D Maison Caudron
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C445M Goéland 8405 F.ARTA D Maréchal Pétain
Pau Caudron C445 Goéland 7541 F.APYS D S.C.T. Aér.
Istres Caudron C445 Goéland 16 T.880 RP V. de F. d'Istres
Avignon - Chateaublanc Caudron C445 Goéland 76 D
Bron Caudron C445 Goéland 8920 P-154 RF
Limoges Caudron C445 Goéland 21 RP
Limoges Caudron C445 Goéland 27 RP
Limoges Caudron C445 Goéland 42 RP
Lézignan Caudron C510 Pélican 6994 F-ANNM RP (illisible)
Lézignan Caudron C510 Pélican 6995 F-ANNN RP B.A. Castres
Périgueux Caudron C510 Pélican 6850 F-APOK DT E.P. civile C.400
Périgueux Caudron C510 Pélican 7071 F-ANTP D Maison Caudron
Albi - Castres Caudron C510 Pélican 0 6998 F-ANNQ D S.A.S. I/101
Albi - Castres Caudron C510 Pélican 6993 F-ANNL D S.A.S. I/101
Albi - Castres Caudron C510 Pélican 7344 F-AOYI RP S.A.S. I/101
Châteauroux Caudron C510 Pélican 0 RP
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C600 Aiglon 8155 D 19e Groupement
Hautes-Pyrénées Caudron C600 Aiglon 103 7241 F-AOKF D E.E.P. 39
Carcassonne Caudron C600 Aiglon 7438 F-APCF D E.P. n°20
Auch Caudron C600 Aiglon 7191 F-AOGL W.924 RP Ecole d'Agen
Either Caudron C600 Aiglon 7193 F-AOGN RP Ecole d'Agen
Or Caudron C600 Aiglon 7106 F-ANYQ RP Ecole d'Agen
Auch Caudron C600 Aiglon 7254 F-AOKT W.925 RP Ecole d'Agen
Auch Caudron C600 Aiglon 7625 F-.AQKK RP Ecole d'Agen
Auch Caudron C600 Aiglon 4194 F-AOSO RP Ecole d'Agen P.600
Auch Caudron C600 Aiglon 7127 F-ANZM RP Ecole d'Agen
Auch Caudron C600 Aiglon 4204 F-AOSZ RP Ecole d'Agen P.600
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C600 Aiglon 7201 F-AOGV D Parc
Albi - E.E.P. n°47 Caudron C600 Aiglon 135 F-AOVF? M.25 D
Bergerac Caudron C600 Aiglon 7032 F-ANSH D
Clermont-Ferrand - ARAA Caudron C601 Aiglon 7626 RP E.A.A. 301
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C601 Aiglon 7622 CT45 D
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C632 6510 F-AJYF RF Parc C.232/4
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C632 6518 F-AJZE RF C.232/4
Carcassonne Caudron C635 Simoun 7668 F-AQMJ D 2e R.A. C.510
Carcassonne Caudron C635 Simoun T.296 D 2e R.A.
Moissac Caudron C635 Simoun 370 RF D.A.L.A.C.
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 16 T.146 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 25 T.155 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 52 T.182 D D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 76 T.206 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 94 T.254 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 194 D D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 206 T.737 D D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 209 T.740 D D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 227 T.758 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 234 T.765 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 259 T.790 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 272 T.803 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 282 T.813 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 283 T.814 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 311 T.842 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 321 T.852 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 333 T.864 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 Simoun 339 T.870 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Istres Caudron C635 7083 F-ANXF Q.347 RP D.E. et de Servitude B.A. Istres
Bron Caudron C635 Simoun 403 560 RF D.I.A.P.
Clermont-Ferrand - ARAA Caudron C635 Simoun 7086 T.135 RP E.A.A. 301
Clermont-Ferrand - ARAA Caudron C635 Simoun 7534 F-APUT RP E.A.A. 301
Pau Caudron C635 Simoun 65 T.195 D E.M. 3e RA
Pau Caudron C635 Simoun 69 T.199 D E.M. 3e RA
Pau Caudron C635 Simoun 77 T.207 D E.M. 3e RA
Pau Caudron C635 Simoun 150 T.351 D E.M. 3e RA
Pau Caudron C635 Simoun 271 T.802 D E.M. 3e RA
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C635 Simoun 134 T.294 RP E.P. 101 (base 107)
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C635 Simoun 369 T.596 D E.P. 101 (base 107)
Albi - Gaillac Caudron C635 Simoun 513 T.793 D E.P. 101 (base 107)
Bergerac Caudron C635 Simoun 101 T.261 RF E.P. Bergerac
Bergerac Caudron C635 Simoun 129 T.289 D E.P. Bergerac
Bergerac Caudron C635 Simoun 347 T.504 RF E.P. Bergerac
Bergerac Caudron C635 Simoun 483 T.092 D E.P. Bergerac
Bergerac Caudron C635 Simoun 495 T.653 RF E.P. Bergerac
Bergerac Caudron C635 Simoun 498 T.656 RF E.P. Bergerac
Brignoles - Fayence Caudron C635 Simoun 112 RP F.A. 15
Pau Caudron C635 Simoun 455 T.064 D G.A.O. 522
Brignoles - Fayence Caudron C635 Simoun 194 D G.A.O. 523
Brignoles - Fayence Caudron C635 Simoun 454 D G.A.O. 523
Hautes-Pyrénées Caudron C635 Simoun 21 RP Groupement de chasse 23
Moissac Caudron C635 Simoun 440 D I/104
Vichy Caudron C635 Simoun 108 T.268 RF Inconnue
Périgueux Caudron C635M Simoun 7528 F-APUN D Maison Caudron
Hautes-Pyrénées Caudron C635 Simoun 144 D S.A.L. stationnée à Toulouse
Hautes-Pyrénées Caudron C635 Simoun 175 D S.A.L. stationnée à Toulouse
Hautes-Pyrénées Caudron C635 Simoun 448 D S.A.L. stationnée à Toulouse
Pau Caudron C635 Simoun 45 T.175 D S.C.T. Aér.
Rodez Caudron C635 Simoun 168 7.369 RP trouvé sur le terrain
Albi - E.E.P. n°47 Caudron C635 Simoun 0 D
Albi - E.E.P. n°47 Caudron C635 Simoun 55 T.185 D
Albi - E.E.P. n°47 Caudron C635 Simoun 193 T.445 RP
Albi - E.E.P. n°47 Caudron C635 Simoun 379 T.536 D
Avignon - Chateaublanc Caudron C635 Simoun 205 D
Avignon - Chateaublanc Caudron C635 Simoun 239 D
Avignon - Chateaublanc Caudron C635 Simoun 348 D
Avignon - Chateaublanc Caudron C635 Simoun 450 D
Châteauroux Caudron C635 Simoun 202 RF
Châteauroux Caudron C635 Simoun 287 RF
Lézignan Caudron C635 Simoun 230 T-761 D
Lézignan Caudron C635 Simoun 247 T-778 RP
Limoges Caudron C635 Simoun 96 T-256 D
Limoges Caudron C635 Simoun 409 T-366 D
Moissac - Corbarieu Caudron C635 Simoun 146 D
Pau Caudron C635 Simoun 123 T.283 D
Pau Caudron C635 Simoun 451 T.060 D
St Etienne Bouthéon Caudron C635 Simoun 98 RF
Salon Caudron C690 12 C.012 D E.M.S.
Toulouse-Francazal Caudron C690 Rafale 8 D Parc
Pau Caudron C690 Rafale 17 B.476 D
Bron Caudron Cyclone 15 I-205 RP D.I.A.P.
Bron Caudron Cyclone 27 I-217 RP D.I.A.P.
Bron Caudron Cyclone 8561 I-219 DT D.I.A.P.
Bron Caudron Cyclone 42 8574
Bron Caudron Cyclone 49 8581
Lézignan Caudron Luciole 14 YY-270 D Det (?) 39 Tarbes
Châteauroux Caudron Luciole 0 RP
Toulouse-Francazal Loire 46 7 N.094 RP Parc
Châteauroux Loire 46 0 RP
Châteauroux Loire 46 58 RP
Toulouse-Francazal Loire 46 9 N.096 D
Tarbes Maillet 24 I020 D Groupement 4
Vichy Maillet 201 11 I.007 RF récupéré sur terrain de Vichy
Clermont-Ferrand - ARAA Mauboussin 123 156 F-ARDO RP E.A.A. 301 M.123
Toulouse-Francazal Mauboussin 125 171 W.781 D EAA 301
Toulouse-Francazal Mauboussin 125 0 A.PQH D Parc
Toulouse-Francazal Mauboussin 127 172 W.782 D EAA 301
Toulouse-Francazal Mauboussin 129 167 W.777 D EAA 301

takata_1940
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Re: French Air Force disposition on 10 May 1940

Post by takata_1940 » 10 Nov 2011 22:32

musec wrote:A number of units have RP in the designations . Could you please advise what this abbreviation signifies.
Hi Clint,
This question about the list above was left unanswered. Those "RP" letters are not part of the unit designation but it is about the state of the aircraft.
It comes from the post-armistice inventory where everything was to be counted for the German armistice commission, including damaged aircraft and all wreckages left on AA bases...
Most of those aircraft are listed as :
- "D" = détruit (destroyed, scuttled)
- "RP" = proposé à la réparation (may be repaired)
- "RF" = proposé à la réforme (damaged beyond repair)

Regards,
Olivier

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Re: French Air Force disposition on 10 May 1940

Post by steverodgers801 » 12 Nov 2011 04:11

While the French did have a lot of aircraft number wise. They failed to make use of them and there is no explanation why.

takata_1940
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Re: French Air Force disposition on 10 May 1940

Post by takata_1940 » 12 Nov 2011 17:08

Hi,
steverodgers801 wrote:While the French did have a lot of aircraft number wise. They failed to make use of them and there is no explanation why.
It looks like a personal statement without much to support it.
- "a lot of aicraft number wise"... compared to what?
- "failed to make use of them and there is no explanation why"... A closer look at what amount of "usable" operational ressources (including pilots, combat aircraft and supplies...) that was actually engaged in the May-June campaign (up to the North-Africa withdrawing order issued on 17th June) would tell mostly the opposite.

Regards,
Olivier

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Re: French Air Force disposition on 10 May 1940

Post by steverodgers801 » 13 Nov 2011 04:04

Of the available air units how many actually were in combat. The French were begging the British for fighter units so what happened to the french units. here is an interesting article and it includes a section about how many units were flown to Africa "An examination of which units were ordered to North Africa and which were left behind reveals much about the motivation behind the evacuation. The units flown to North Africa were those regular air force squadrons with the most modern and effective aircraft--all of the squadrons equipped with the Curtiss 75A (10), Dewoitine 520 (10), Amiot 354 (8), Bloch 174 (18), Farman 222 (4), Douglas DB-7 (8), and Martin 167 (10), plus most of those with the Lioré et Olivier 451 (12 of 18). Those left behind included all of the air force reserve units--47 observation squadrons and 12 fighter squadrons--and all of the units closely connected with the army (the observation squadrons, the 10 assault bomber squadrons, and 7 night fighter squadrons converted to the ground assault role).31"
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airc ... kland.html the author believes that politics were responsible for the lack of effectiveness of the French airforce.

takata_1940
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Re: French Air Force disposition on 10 May 1940

Post by takata_1940 » 14 Nov 2011 21:02

Hi,
steverodgers801 wrote:Of the available air units how many actually were in combat. The French were begging the British for fighter units so what happened to the french units. here is an interesting article and it includes a section about how many units were flown to Africa "An examination of which units were ordered to North Africa and which were left behind reveals much about the motivation behind the evacuation. The units flown to North Africa were those regular air force squadrons with the most modern and effective aircraft--all of the squadrons equipped with the Curtiss 75A (10), Dewoitine 520 (10), Amiot 354 (8), Bloch 174 (18), Farman 222 (4), Douglas DB-7 (8), and Martin 167 (10), plus most of those with the Lioré et Olivier 451 (12 of 18). Those left behind included all of the air force reserve units--47 observation squadrons and 12 fighter squadrons--and all of the units closely connected with the army (the observation squadrons, the 10 assault bomber squadrons, and 7 night fighter squadrons converted to the ground assault role).31"
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airc ... kland.html the author believes that politics were responsible for the lack of effectiveness of the French airforce.
Kirkland's papers were already discussed above : In short, they were very poorly researched papers... hence, whatever conclusions or "author's believes" doesn't really match with the facts about the Armée de l'Air May-June campaign.

ie.
- Of the available air units how many actually were in combat[?]
As far as I can verify it... every French available combat unit was actually engaged in combat. Most combat rated pilots (instructors and trainees) and their aircraft still held in instructional units were also drawn as reinforcements.
Which "ready to fight" unit, I'm not aware of, wasn't engaged?

Regards.
Olivier

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Re: French Air Force disposition on 10 May 1940

Post by Bronsky » 03 Dec 2011 14:49

Steverodgers,

The article you provided a link to is, in my opinion, very poor research. Which is a pity, because the author makes what would otherwise be good points - like the French letting officers stay and become generals, leading to a smaller number of older cadres: a general costs as much as several lieutenants, and while a young officer can be promoted to general after a while, an older officer can't become a combat pilot again. But these few good points are lost in a muddle of inaccurate figures and deliberately loose wording. Simply put, Kirkland decided that the French had the aircraft and wouldn't use them, and he cherry-picked whatever figures he could find to try and make that point.

Now I have spent time looking at the issue and discussing these articles. I am not, naturally enough, asking you to take my word for it that I'm right and Kirkland's wrong, but I am asking that, if you want to argue or discuss his points, you go to the trouble of reading some of the rebuttals that are already written and on line. Please. That way, we can all start from a reasonably informed starting point.

I provided some of the information and at least one link in a post on page 3 of this thread.

And again, please note that this isn't about "defending the French". The French air force was a mess. What I find irritating is that, with so many thing to blame it for, people focus on one of the very few sins it was not guilty of. The French threw everything into the fight. Every plane, every pilot that could reach the fighting went. These planes were generally misused, and not always particularly effective even when used properly, which the air force certainly has to account for. But holding back it didn't.

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Re: French Air Force disposition on 10 May 1940

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 07 Apr 2019 18:39

Spent the last 40 minutes rereading this thread. Glad it was made a sticky. Wondering if it might be worth while to add some data, ect... on the strength and disposition of the Armee d Air in late June as the evacuation halted and the Armisitce had its effect.

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