Actual organization of 5-8e DIC 1940

[Kelvin]

I am looking for actual organization of several DIC in 1940 : below is information I find in several DIC, is it correct, hope someone can help :

5e DIC : 44e and 53e RICMS each had one Sengalese battalion and two French Colonial battalions

6e DIC : 5e and 6e RICMS each had one Sengalese battalion and two French Colonial battalions

7e DIC : 33e and 57e RICMS each had two Sengalese battalions and one French Colonial btn

8e DIC : 25e and 26e RICMS each had one Sengalese btn and two French battalions

And anyone can tell me my data base are all correct or something wrong ?


And what the actual organization of Regiment d' Artillerie Coloniale Mixte Malgache in 5 -7e DIC, how many Malgache and French recruits in each regiment ? Anyone have data on that organization ?

Also North African recruits in North African light and heavy Artillery regiments were only limited to Algerian ? Thank

[Loïc]

hello

no datas for North african Artillery Regiments (RANA) the 20e and 220e RANA seem reserved for Tunisians...


For the DIC instead of 25e and 26e RTS who are not Régiment d'Infanterie Coloniale Mixte Sénégalais (RICMS), simply Senegalese Tirailleurs Regiments, there were in june 1940 27e and 28e RICMS of the aborted 9e DIC

2 French battalions for one indigenous is not really an ideal regimental format because the goal of such mixing is to maintain regimental strength by the indigenous recruitment in order to liberate French cadres for others units

the "mixing" seems more larger : the 3 battalions are mixed, only the 3 regimental companies (Command Coy. CHR & CRE) don't receive indigenous recruits

3 Senegalese Tirailleurs Battalions were merged with a RIC to make a RICMS

54e 58e 59e 60e 61e 62e BTS for 33e and 57e RIC etc...
51e 52e 53e BTS were merged with Ist IInd IIIrd Battalions of the 5e RIC to get the 5e RICMS : 3104 men 58,4% Blacks Africans for 41,5% French
but in the 53e RICMS the mix gives 57% French and 43% Black Africans

on paper last RICMS organised in may-june 1940 should have 1136 French (38,2%) 1797 Black Africans (61,2%)

in comparison a RTS like the 25e RTS had 71,5% Black Africans

from an other thread, as this regards also 7e DIC

Regarding 87e DIA and 7e DIC, the former had 9500 men on June 25 with attached units like 19e BATS and 344e RI, around 3800 men and the latter had 17e BATS, 52e BMM and one group from 321e RAP around 2500 men, if deducting their attached units, 87e DIA actual manpower level were only 5500 men and 7e DIC only 6500 men left, so their manpower level was just same as many French division in this moment, do you have some information on those two units ' status or their subunits like infantry regiments, artillery or sapper/service units at the end of campaign ? Thank

7e DIC 6894 men for following units after the Armistice, end of june 1940 :
-4e RIC 1113 (has joined the Division 2nd june)
-7e RIC 807
-33e RICMS 797 French 796 Senegalese = 1593
-57e RICMS 559 French 595 Senegalese = 1154
& 17e BATS 12 French 93 Senegalese = 105
-32e RACMM 1397 French 273 Malagasy = 1670
-232e RACMM 427 French 25 Malagasy = 452

for the Malagasy Mixed Colonial Artillery Regiments you have Lee Sharp's Volume V page 158
the Malagasy joined the Regiment mainly as horse-drivers 1179 French 859 Malagasy
the same wth the heavy RALD 980 French 641 Malagasy (~90% as horse drivers in both cases)

for the 87e DIA I have the 19e BATS reduced to only 36 French and 251 Senegalese

Regards
Loïc L.

[Kelvin]

hello

no datas for North african Artillery Regiments (RANA) the 20e and 220e RANA seem reserved for Tunisians...


For the DIC instead of 25e and 26e RTS who are not Régiment d'Infanterie Coloniale Mixte Sénégalais (RICMS), simply Senegalese Tirailleurs Regiments, there were in june 1940 27e and 28e RICMS of the aborted 9e DIC

2 French battalions for one indigenous is not really an ideal regimental format because the goal of such mixing is to maintain regimental strength by the indigenous recruitment in order to liberate French cadres for others units

the "mixing" seems more larger : the 3 battalions are mixed, only the 3 regimental companies (Command Coy. CHR & CRE) don't receive indigenous recruits

3 Senegalese Tirailleurs Battalions were merged with a RIC to make a RICMS

54e 58e 59e 60e 61e 62e BTS for 33e and 57e RIC etc...
51e 52e 53e BTS were merged with Ist IInd IIIrd Battalions of the 5e RIC to get the 5e RICMS : 3104 men 58,4% Blacks Africans for 41,5% French
but in the 53e RICMS the mix gives 57% French and 43% Black Africans

on paper last RICMS organised in may-june 1940 should have 1136 French (38,2%) 1797 Black Africans (61,2%)

in comparison a RTS like the 25e RTS had 71,5% Black Africans

from an other thread, as this regards also 7e DIC

Regarding 87e DIA and 7e DIC, the former had 9500 men on June 25 with attached units like 19e BATS and 344e RI, around 3800 men and the latter had 17e BATS, 52e BMM and one group from 321e RAP around 2500 men, if deducting their attached units, 87e DIA actual manpower level were only 5500 men and 7e DIC only 6500 men left, so their manpower level was just same as many French division in this moment, do you have some information on those two units ' status or their subunits like infantry regiments, artillery or sapper/service units at the end of campaign ? Thank

7e DIC 6894 men for following units after the Armistice, end of june 1940 :
-4e RIC 1113 (has joined the Division 2nd june)
-7e RIC 807
-33e RICMS 797 French 796 Senegalese = 1593
-57e RICMS 559 French 595 Senegalese = 1154
& 17e BATS 12 French 93 Senegalese = 105
-32e RACMM 1397 French 273 Malagasy = 1670
-232e RACMM 427 French 25 Malagasy = 452

for the Malagasy Mixed Colonial Artillery Regiments you have Lee Sharp's Volume V page 158
the Malagasy joined the Regiment mainly as horse-drivers 1179 French 859 Malagasy
the same wth the heavy RALD 980 French 641 Malagasy (~90% as horse drivers in both cases)

for the 87e DIA I have the 19e BATS reduced to only 36 French and 251 Senegalese

Regards
Loïc L.

Hi, Loic, thank again for your help on topic above and your correction on 8e DIC.

I would like to ask you if you have data on the remainder of 7e DIC in manpower breakdown after armistice ? Like 77e GRDI, GED, GSD, sapper, signals, services and Train and 52e BMM and I./321e RAP ? Thank