French 2d Armored Division and 3d Algerian Division OOBs

[James Patrick]

Does anyone know the OOB's for the French 2nd Armored Division commanded by LeClerc and the 3d Algerian Division commanded by Lattre around December 1944?

[daveh]

Try

http://www.jeroenkoppes.com/ww2/units/2 ... asp#troops

for the french 2nd armored div

[James Patrick]

Thanks. Anyone know the oob for the 3d Algerian Division that was around Strasburg in December of '44.

[David Lehmann]

Here I have quickly made a document for you ... well it is either .doc or .pdf and this forum does not allow these attachments ... contact me if you want.

3e DIA (only the combat units)

• 4e régiment de tirailleurs tunisiens (colonial infantry)
• 3e régiment de tirailleurs algériens (colonial infantry)
• 7e régiment de tirailleurs algériens (colonial infantry)
• 49e régiment d'infanterie (infantry)
• 7e régiment de chasseurs d'Afrique (M10 destroyer)
• 3e Régiment de Spahis algériens (recon : Stuart, M8 "Greyhound" and Halftracks)
• 37e groupe forces terrestres anti-aériennes (AA group, probably 40 mm bofors)
• 67e régiment d'artillerie d'Afrique (Artillery Rgt, 105 mm and 155 mm)
• 83e bataillon du génie (engineers)


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[James Patrick]

Thanks Panzermeyer. That's exactly what I was looking for. Are these regiments battalion-sized or brigade-sized elements?

[David Lehmann]

Sorry, I don't know ... I guess these regiments are organized with batallions ... I know the 1st DFL was organized with brigades.

I have both commanders and divisionnal insignia if you want.

[James Patrick]

Thanks again for your help, Panzermeyer. I'm trying to judge the size of the 3 DIA compared to a standard US/Commonwealth division. If the 3 DIA regiments are the size of the standard US/Commonwealth regiment/brigade, than the 3 DIA is a pretty big division. If the 3 DIA regiments are the size of the standard US/Commonwealth battalion/regiment, than the 3d Algerian is a smaller-sized division. Are the division commander's of the 2d Armored and 3d Algerian in December 1944 Leclerc and Lattre?

[David Lehmann]

Commanders in 1944 for the liberation of Strasbourg :
2e DB : general Philippe De HAUTECLOQUE aka «LECLERC»
3e DIA : general Guillaume.

---------------------------

The French CEFI (Corps Expéditionnaire Français en Italie) under the command of general Juin is used as basis to build the 1st french army under the command of general De Lattre De Tassigny. The whole represents 500000 men.

It is organized in 2 corps :
1st under the command of general Béthouart
2nd under the command of general De Goislard de Monsabert

and are composed of :

- 1ere Division Française Libre, also called 1ere division d'infanterie
general Garbay (from november 20th 1944).

- 2e division d'infanterie marocaine.
general Carpentier.

- 3e division d'infanterie algérienne.
general Guillaume.

- 3e division marocaine de montagne.
general Sevel.

- 9e division d'infanterie coloniale.
general Magnan.

- 1ere division blindée.
general Sudre.

- 5e division blindée.
general De Vernéjoul and later general Schlesser.

Reserves :
- 3 GTM (groupements de tabors marocains) (infantry)
- 9e régiment de zouaves (infantry)
- 1er régiment de tirailleurs algériens (infantry)
- 2 chasseurs d'Afrique regiments (Sherman M4A2, M4A3 76, M4A3 105, M4A4, M8 "Greyhound")
- 3 spahis regiments (Stuart, M8 "Greyhound" and Halftracks)
- 1 régiment colonial de chasseurs de chars (M10 tanks)
- 2e dragons regiment regiments (Sherman M4A2, M4A3 76, M4A3 105, M4A4, M8 "Greyhound")

In North Africa from 1941 to 1943 (Lybia, Tunisia with Koufra, Bir Hakeim, Fezzan etc ...)
Italian campaign 1943/1944 (the CEFI allowed to take Monte Cassino by piercing more south in the Monte Majo much more mountainous but general Juin's Goumiers and their mule packs did it and broke the german front)
The south of France landing : they liberated the cities of Toulon and Marseille. They also took the Corse and Elbe islands.
In the Vosges/Alsace battles (where 25% of the allied forces are French) during 1944, they were the first to reach the Rhine (not US troops as usually in the movies) and then they entered south Germany and Austria : Kehl, Karlsruhe, Neckar, Pforzheim, Tübingen, Stuttgart, Rottweil, Uberlingen, Sigmaringen, Bregenz, Bludenz ...


The 2e DB landed in Normandy and joined the 1st French Army like other French troops (FFI as well as different SAS, marine and airborne commandos units) for the battles in North East of France, especially in Alsace : liberation of Alençon, Paris, Belfort area, and then in Alsace Colmar Pocket, liberation of Strasbourg and all the battles during operation Nordwind ... and then south Germany and Austria. They were also the first reaching and taking Berchtesgaden and the "Adler's nest" (not like in the Band of brothers movies where as usually US have done everything)

2e Division Blindée :

• 12e régiment de cuirassiers (Sherman M4A2, M4A3 76, M4A3 105, M4A4, Stuart)
• 501e régiment de chars de combats (Sherman M4A2, M4A3 76, M4A3 105, M4A4, Stuart)
• Régiment blindé de fusiliers marins (M10 destroyer)
• 12e régiment de chasseurs d'Afrique (Sherman M4A2, M4A3 76, M4A3 105, M4A4, M8 "Greyhound")
• 1er Régiment de marche de Spahis marocains (Stuart, M8 "Greyhound" and Halftracks)
• Régiment de marche du Tchad (mechanized infantry) (Lt colonel Massu)
• 1/3e régiment d'artillerie coloniale
• 1/40e régiment d'artillerie nord-africain
• 1/64e régiment d'artillerie divisionnaire (the arty is mostly made up of M7 Priest)
• 22e groupe forces terrestres anti-aériennes (Bofors, M16 and M15A1 MGMC)
• 13e bataillon du génie

The French armored divisions were organized for combat like the US AD, in "combat commands".


1sr French Army :

mid 1944: created from the divisions of the CEFI (corps expéditionnaire français en Italie)

15 august 1944 : landing in Provence

28 august 1944 : liberation of Toulon

29 august 1944 : liberation of Marseille

3 september 1944 : liberation of Lyon and Villefranche

8 september 1944 : liberation of Autun

12 september 1944 : junction with the French Army landed in Normandy

4 october 1944 : beginning of the Vosges battle

november 1944 : Alsace battle and liberation of Strasbourg

20 january - 9 february 1945: reduction of the Colmar Pocket

march 1945 : entering in Germany (Karlsruhe accross the Rhine)

24 avril 1945 : Ulm (on the Danube)

8 Mai 1945 : the general de Lattre de Tassigny represents France during the capitulation of Germany.


David

[Andy H]

David aka Panzermeyer

Thanks for the excellent info. Do you have any reccomendations of books available in English concerning the Free French Armies operations in 1944?

Andy

[David Lehmann]

Good books but not in English as far as I know, sorry ... Or perhaps they exist but I don't know them ...

[Andy H]

That's a shame as most books concentrate on the Battle for Arnhem, the Bulge and the Rhine Crossings, with just the odd line outlining the French campaign further south.

Andy

[David Lehmann]

Yes but who in England or in the USA (especially now) would be interested in a book about French army ? For many people we are just a bunch of "cowards" and they know nothing about it

Here is a list of several French books perhaps with the authors you can look if a translated version exists but I doubt :

- About French Armor :

Gérard Saint-Marin (Economica)
"l'arme blindée française"
T1 (mai-juin 40 : les blindées français dans la tourmente)
T2 (dans le fracas des batailles 40-45)

- About the 2e DB :

Pierre Quillet (Maisonneuve et Larose)
"Le chemin le plus long"

Hubert Pittino (Editions Muller)
"Combats de la 2e DB en Normandie"

Alain Eymard (Heimdal)
"La 2e DB"


- About the French 1st Army :

Maréchal De Lattre de Tassigny (Presses de la Cité)
"Histoire de la 1ère Armée française"

Yves Buffetaut et Jean Restayn (Histoire et Collections)
"La chevauchée de l'Armée de Lattre"

Paul Gaujac (Lavauzelle)
"L’armée de la Victoire (tome 1) : Le réarmement 1942-43"
"L’armée de la Victoire (tome 2) : De Naples à l'île d'Elbe"
"L’armée de la Victoire (tome 3) : De la Provence à l'Allemagne"
"L’armée de la Victoire (tome 4) : Du Rhin au Danube 1944-45"

- About the French Army (from end 1940 to 1945) :

Christian Félix (Les éditions du Polygone)
"De Sedan à Berchtesgaden : La résurrection de l’armée française"


I haven't studied each of them.

David

[Andy H]

Yes but who in England or in the USA (especially now) would be interested in a book about French army ? For many people we are just a bunch of "cowards" and they know nothing about it

Ignorance and stupidity can only be overcome by education. The fact that there are so few books around on the French Army only adds to the myths etc.

Thank you for the list, I can keep my librarian busy this coming month, searching for these titles.

Andy

[David Lehmann]

If you could be interested in the 39/40 period I also posted a list of books in the reference material section of the forum :

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopi ... 721#196721

[Andy H]

Yep I spotted that post.

Thanks

Andy