French Colonial Troops (Les troupes coloniales) - May 1940

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Volyn
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French Colonial Troops (Les troupes coloniales) - May 1940

Post by Volyn » 17 Oct 2018 13:58

This photo shows a soldier from the French Troupes coloniales «Force noire».
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troupes_coloniales
2. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tirailleu ... C3%A99gard

His epaulet shows the insignia for the 42e demi-brigade de mitrailleurs coloniaux (42e DBMC) which was commanded by Lieutenant-Colonel De Pinsun. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/42e_demi- ... _coloniaux

He was captured after the Battle of Sedan (Bataille de Monthermé) on May 15, 1940 by the 1. Gebirgs-Division.
1. viewtopic.php?t=84761
2. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_ ... herm%C3%A9

Is it possible to learn about what became of these POWs from 42e DBMC?
What camps were they interned at?
Were they forced into the German labor services?
Did the Germans treat them worse because they were from Africa?
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wbfamily
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Re: French Colonial Troops (Les troupes coloniales) - May 1940

Post by wbfamily » 17 Oct 2018 15:00

Here are more men from his unit:
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Volyn
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Re: French Colonial Troops (Les troupes coloniales) - May 1940

Post by Volyn » 17 Oct 2018 17:25

Here is more information about the prisoners from Troupes coloniales «Force noire»:

The colonial soldiers from the French, Belgian and Dutch armies who were POWs were kept in 20 different Stammlagers (out of 40 existing) in the Reich. In July 1940 Stalag IID in Stargard counted 4,600 and Stalag IIIA in Luckenwalde 4,000 of the colonial POWs.

The Senegalese POWs in theses photos had a better than an average chance of surviving the war as prisoners, although colonial soldiers taken in northern France were less likely to be murdered than those taken from central France. Out of the 15,000 Senegalese captives taken from France, both the Wehrmacht and the Waffen SS executed 3,000 of them after their surrender.

The main participants in the mass murder of the Senegalese was SS-Totenkopf-Division and some SS-Standarte, maybe Germania - does anyone know more about this?

Also, what can we learn from the German's uniforms who are present in the second photo?

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Loïc
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Re: French Colonial Troops (Les troupes coloniales) - May 1940

Post by Loïc » 18 Oct 2018 18:20

Hello

there are already several threads opened I think about german war crimes against black soldiers

sorry but the Troupes Coloniales were not a Force Noire, such second title quite curious for 1940 refers to pre-/and WWI debates, there were colonial units more white and europeans than some metropolitans units

such unit, the 42e DBMC, first these "black" men were not all Senegalese as indicated but Malagasies,

and second point the 42nd colonial machine-gun half-brigade was mainly a French metropolitan unit from Pyrenean reservists with a only a nucleus of soldiers from Madagascar

I think about the POW's they remained in the Fronstalags of the northern occupied zone as the others colored people, you can met several names in the POW's lists and dead, mainly by disease in French hospitals after 1940

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Re: French Colonial Troops (Les troupes coloniales) - May 1940

Post by alain adam » 18 Oct 2018 18:32

Hi dear Loïc ,
I think we have to make a difference between colonial units ( like RICs ) and african units ( like RTSs ) .
Depending of the unit , the sourcing of troop is different ( but kept always a part of metropolitan troops ) . Senegaleese troops , for instance, ar not all from the Senegal country , but mainly from central africa .
If we came back to the divisionnal organisation , it should have an impact on white/black proportions .
As an example , if you take the 4th DIC , you have 1 RIC for 2 RTS , at the opposite of the 3rd DIC , with 3 RIC .

Anyway , i think you're better than me on this subject .

Alain
ATF40 ( Armée de Terre Française 1940 ) : French ground army in 1940 , website atf40.fr

Volyn
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Re: French Colonial Troops (Les troupes coloniales) - May 1940

Post by Volyn » 18 Oct 2018 20:18

Loïc wrote:
18 Oct 2018 18:20
Hello

there are already several threads opened I think about german war crimes against black soldiers

sorry but the Troupes Coloniales were not a Force Noire, such second title quite curious for 1940 refers to pre-/and WWI debates, there were colonial units more white and europeans than some metropolitans units

such unit, the 42e DBMC, first these "black" men were not all Senegalese as indicated but Malagasies,

and second point the 42nd colonial machine-gun half-brigade was mainly a French metropolitan unit from Pyrenean reservists with a only a nucleus of soldiers from Madagascar

I think about the POW's they remained in the Fronstalags of the northern occupied zone as the others colored people, you can met several names in the POW's lists and dead, mainly by disease in French hospitals after 1940
The information I found was only from Wikipedia - I hoped that someone like you could help with errors. What other sources of information about 42e DBMC is available? Also, would like to know if we can identify the actual POW camp that the prisoners from Battle of Monthermé were sent to?

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Loïc
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Re: French Colonial Troops (Les troupes coloniales) - May 1940

Post by Loïc » 19 Oct 2018 21:10

Hello

contrary I expected, in the POW's lists they appear as being sent to the Stalag II A in Germany and not a frontstalag of the northern occupied zone...

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Projekt-Westwall
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Re: French Colonial Troops (Les troupes coloniales) - May 1940

Post by Projekt-Westwall » 20 Oct 2018 18:31

Good evening together!

I bought this picture from Ebay... two colonial Officers (Colonel) were captured-
were it was taken, or which german or french forces, i ddn't know...
Perhaps in the Sarre Region...

BRegards
Markus
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ON NE PASSE PAS!

Volyn
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Re: French Colonial Troops (Les troupes coloniales) - May 1940

Post by Volyn » 20 Oct 2018 18:45

Projekt-Westwall wrote:
20 Oct 2018 18:31
two colonial Officers (Colonel) were captured-were it was taken, or which german or french forces, i don't know...Perhaps in the Sarre Region...
Pouvez-vous voir des chiffres sur leurs épaulettes?

These are two Troupes coloniales regiments operating in the Fortified Sector of the Sarre, could they be from one of them?

1. 41e Régiment des Mitrailleurs d'Infanterie du Casemate (RMIC), Lt. Colonel Tristani

2. 51e Régiment des Mitrailleurs d'Infanterie du Casemate (RMIC), Lt. Colonel Revier de Mauny

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Loïc
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Re: French Colonial Troops (Les troupes coloniales) - May 1940

Post by Loïc » 20 Oct 2018 19:41

hello

both regiments are not "de (la) casemate" that is a wrong title, RMIC means Régiment de Mitrailleurs d'Infanterie Coloniale

about this last picture seem belong rather to Colonial Artillery than RMIC

Regards
Loïc L.

Volyn
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Re: French Colonial Troops (Les troupes coloniales) - May 1940

Post by Volyn » 20 Oct 2018 20:23

Loïc wrote:
20 Oct 2018 19:41
both regiments are not "de (la) casemate" that is a wrong title, RMIC means Régiment de Mitrailleurs d'Infanterie Coloniale

about this last picture seem belong rather to Colonial Artillery than RMIC
Great - can we identify the artillery unit they commanded if they were in the Sarre?

Here is a detailed article that I found, it shows which regiments were operating in each area during that time.
http://67400.free.fr/monsiteweb/les%20t ... 9-1940.htm

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