French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

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Leo Niehorster
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French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Leo Niehorster » 09 Nov 2018 21:40

Does anyone know where the headquarters for the French Air Force were in North Africa were stationed on or about 8 Nevember 1942?
— 1st Air Force Region
— Groups (Groupments)
(I do have the squadron and flight headquarters.)

------
Any indication of air force ground units, such as maintenance, training, etc?


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Loïc
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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Loïc » 26 Nov 2018 03:39

hello
the 1st Air Region was located in Aix-en-Provence after the Armistice while the disbanded North Africa 5th Region was reduced to an Air Superior Command Commandement Supérieur de l'Air in Algiers

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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Leo Niehorster » 26 Nov 2018 09:02

Hi Loïc,

Many thanks.

If I understand you correctly, the Armée de l'Air consisted of the
     1st Air Region (Aix-en-Provence, Metropolitan France), with three Groupements
     [*] Air Superior Command (Algiers, Alergia), with seven Groupements

Somewhere along the line the Air Maroc, Air Tunisie, and Air Algerie were under [*] Commandement Supérieur de l'Air, with headquarters in Algiers?

[*] no name or number

Were the the air units in AOF and Afrique Orientale directly under the Armée de l'Air?

Sorry, lots of questions. :wink:

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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Loïc » 26 Nov 2018 15:44

hello Leo

in the Overseas territories you have only 8 unumbered territorial Air Commands

3 separates Commands for Morocco Algeria Tunisia but under a High Command in Algiers for whole North Africa

Afrique Orientale (Eastern) is only Djibouti (CFS French Coast of the Somalis) and Madagascar,

the 5 others Air Commands
AOF (French Western Africa)
AEF (French Equatorial Africa joined Free France by august 1940)
Levant until july 1941
Madagascar (& Réunion) until 1942
Indochina
cdtsAir.PNG
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Leo Niehorster
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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Leo Niehorster » 27 Nov 2018 09:59

Hello again Loïc,

Again, many thanks for this fascinating diagram.

And again, more questions. :oops:
   Source of the diagram?
   Where was the 2nd Air Command in Metropolitan France located?
   Any idea about the structure of the 1st and 2nd Air Commands?
   Any data regarding commanders?

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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Loïc » 27 Nov 2018 19:04

hello Leo

I thought I have joined the link with the picture, so here page 30 from a pdf of the Army Historical Service
http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defens ... INV_3D.pdf

in Metropolitan -southern free zone- France there were not commands but Régions the 2nd was located in Toulouse (Général Pastier, look below for others names)

the Command in Madagascar was actually a Command for the "Group of French Colonies in the Indian Ocean" with two commands with one in Madagacar and the other in the French Coast of the Somalis

Image
Regards
Loïc L.

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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Leo Niehorster » 27 Nov 2018 22:04

Greetings!

Nice diagram. Thank you, Loïc,

Is Claude d'Abzac-Epezy's "L'armée de l'Air des années noires: Vichy 1940-1944" worth getting?
If so, could you possibly post an image of the contents/index here?

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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Loïc » 28 Nov 2018 19:04

yes but it is not exactly the same book...

L'Armée de l'Air des années noires Vichy 1940-1944 is a ~400 pages reduced version for the Editor Economica taking place with two further Patrick Facon's books in a kind of trilogy in their serie Campagnes & Stratégies coming from her initial ~700-pages L'Armée de l'Air de Vichy 1940-1944 academic thesis published by the Air Historical Service
ImageImageImage

for the grounds/ "soil" de servitude Air units 1939-1942, I am especially interested in this topic, I didn't find my happyness yet, for the Air books and sources and people are usually interested mainly in flights units, not "de servitude" while the planes and pilots units were only the tip of iceberg with a huge amount of Support and Services Battalions, Companies, Sections

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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Leo Niehorster » 29 Nov 2018 09:40

Hello again Loïc,

Thank you for the cover images and the explanations.
  • Do you have any idea what is the difference between Claude d'Abzac-Epezy's abridged Economica and the academic thesis Air Historical Service versions?
  • Would it be possible for you to post the contents "Table" page of either version?
    The one which shows what the book's chapters, their titles, and even possible their contents. 8-)
    The Amazon Kindle preview of the abridged Economica version does not have a contents at the beginning.
    Some books have this at the end.
I would hate to buy the book only to find out that the table you posted was the only one of interest. :oops:

Yes, service units are very much ignored, not just of the air forces. However, most, if not all, of these units can be found in the archives. See Lee Sharp's books about the 1940 French Army. [Unless the archives have been destroyed.] I want to include them, and am always pleased when I can find them.

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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Leo Niehorster » 30 Nov 2018 09:07

Loïc,
I shall be incommunicado until 08.12.18.

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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Loïc » 07 Dec 2018 00:19

Hello
at Economica it is a shorter light version with 412 pages and 6 annexes (strenght of the Air officers under Vichy 1940-1944, civilian and military strenght of the SGDA, of the combat aircraft 1940-1942, of the planes taken by the Luftwaffe and Regia Aeronautica after november 1942, lists of Air flight fighter recce bombers Groups I/1 to II/63 their type of planes and locations the 3rd sept 1939, 1st sept. 1940 and 8th november 1942) Image

while the 723 pages...
Image
Image
Image

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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Leo Niehorster » 08 Dec 2018 11:01

Outstanding, Loïc !

Appreciate your taking the time to copy and post this data.

Thank you very much. :D :D :D
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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Leo Niehorster » 12 Dec 2018 10:52

 
Greetings Loïc!
Unfortunately, your Private Message app at AHF is disabled, so I will try here. Sorry.
You can contact me at Leo_Niehorster[at]yahoo[dot]com



I appreciate your assistance with the French Air Force.
I have since been trying acquire the dissertation by Abzac-Epezy L'Armée de l'air de Vichy, 1940–1944, but only have found it in libraries.

Do you have a copy? If so, would you please advise me where you acquired it?

Thanks.
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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by jwsleser » 12 Dec 2018 17:01

Leo

It has been published.

L'Armée l'air années noires 1940-1944

L'armée de l'air des annees noires

Thesis cite Here

Pista! Jeff
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Re: French Air Force, North Africa, November 1942

Post by Leo Niehorster » 12 Dec 2018 17:21

Hi Jeff,

Many thanks. Just what I was looking for.
Ordered the thesis. Seems to have more details.

How come I didn't find that? :oops:

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