The (Free) French Air Force in 1940-1945 (Listing attempt)

Discussions on all aspects of France during the Inter-War era and Second World War.
maxs75
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Post by maxs75 » 06 Jun 2006 22:47

Thanks David,
Your info fits with what I already knew. And what about Marine? AFAIK the air units are Flotille and Escadrille, but I even don't know which unit is bigger. Is Flotille made up by escadrilles?

regards
Max

Pachy
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Re: Escadre, Groupe, Escadrille

Post by Pachy » 10 Jun 2006 23:13

maxs75 wrote:David,
can You check if this is the correct spelling?

II/33 was a "Groupe de reconnaissance"
II/5 was a "Groupe de Chasse"
II/52 a "Groupe de Bombardement"

Correct.

3 "Groupe de Chasse" formed a "Escadre de Chasse".

In 1939 yes (2 or 3 "groupes" actually), but there were no more "escadres" in the OOB 1940. The AdA used more flexible "groupements" instead.

2 or 3 Escadre formed a "Groupement de Chasse"??? (something like a US Wing/RAF Group)

If I understand things correctly, "escadres" and "groupements" did not co-exist.

How does Escadron fits in this scheme?

"Groupes" were simply res-designated as "Escadrons" postwar. Possibly so as the word would be closer to the English "squadron". I think it pre-dates NATO standardization, though.

Pachy
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Post by Pachy » 10 Jun 2006 23:14

maxs75 wrote:Is Flotille made up by escadrilles?

Yes:

http://france1940.free.fr/aeronaval/aero_may.html

Somua S35
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Post by Somua S35 » 14 Jun 2006 19:00

Pachy wrote:
maxs75 wrote:Is Flotille made up by escadrilles?

Yes:

http://france1940.free.fr/aeronaval/aero_may.html


Pachy , will you make something about french airplanes and forces on the net , in the future , particulary on french airforce in 1940 ?
You seems to be really very interesting on this subject .
And , maybe you don't know , but i search some collaborators for the "armée de l'air" , to link ATF40 , and make a websites-group to define all the french army, ground , navy and air .
( Uh , my english .. sorry ! I will take lessons with david , i promise !)

Regards

maxs75
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Re: Escadre, Groupe, Escadrille

Post by maxs75 » 14 Jun 2006 21:02

Pachy wrote:
maxs75 wrote:David,
can You check if this is the correct spelling?

II/33 was a "Groupe de reconnaissance"
II/5 was a "Groupe de Chasse"
II/52 a "Groupe de Bombardement"

Correct.

3 "Groupe de Chasse" formed a "Escadre de Chasse".

In 1939 yes (2 or 3 "groupes" actually), but there were no more "escadres" in the OOB 1940. The AdA used more flexible "groupements" instead.

2 or 3 Escadre formed a "Groupement de Chasse"??? (something like a US Wing/RAF Group)

If I understand things correctly, "escadres" and "groupements" did not co-exist.

How does Escadron fits in this scheme?

"Groupes" were simply res-designated as "Escadrons" postwar. Possibly so as the word would be closer to the English "squadron". I think it pre-dates NATO standardization, though.



Fine, thank you very much. Did this organization remain during 1943-45?
I found groupement 8 in the allied oob in july 1943, and several escadres from 1944 to end of the war.

Max

maxs75
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1st TAF

Post by maxs75 » 11 Jul 2006 16:13

I need your help again...
I have a scheme about organization of 1st Tactical Air Force in november 1944 that comprised many french units. But the table is an english language one, so escadre de chasse are fighter groups and so on. I don't know what's the correct translation of 2nd Bomb wing that comprised no. 31 and 34 bomb grooups (Escadre de bombardement). Can You help?
The same for the translation of 550th Fighter wing that comprised 1st, 3rd, 4th Fighter groups.
Were they named 2eme groupement de bombardement and 550xx?? groupement de chasse?

Both 2nd BW and 550th FW were under 1st french air corps.
Thank you

Max

maxs75
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Post by maxs75 » 30 Oct 2007 23:19

Hi,
the page http://www.france-libre.net/forces_fran ... s_FAFL.htm
says that Artois and Picardie were created in 1942, while the scheme posted earlier in this thread says 1943 for Picardie. Do you have addtional info about those two units?

Thanks
Max

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David Lehmann
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Post by David Lehmann » 30 Oct 2007 23:32

Hello,

I would have to have a closer to look to this 'old' thread, but the discrepancy is probably due to the fact that I wanted to give the operational status dates (as indicated in the tables) and not the creation dates.

Regards,

David

maxs75
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Post by maxs75 » 31 Oct 2007 16:45

Thank you. If you can find more about those units (planes flown, locations, commands) I am interested in it.
Max

maxs75
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Post by maxs75 » 12 Jan 2008 11:48

David Lehmann wrote:7) Other units provided by the FRENCH FLEET AIR ARM


David,
I have another question for You. Can You provide the dates when the French Navy air squadrons were operational? I particular I'm looking for the squadrons in Mediterranean in july 1943, at the time of Sicilian invasion.

Max

goldrex
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Re: The (Free) French Air Force in 1940-1945 (Listing attempt)

Post by goldrex » 03 Nov 2009 18:10

David,
I'm looking for the French designation of a "Wing". US/RAF terminology would be, three groups = Wing. In Armee de l'Air service could that be, three escadres = ???. BTW, the timeframe I'm interested in is Post WWII-Indochina-Algeria.
Thank you for your time and effort,
Regards,
P.N.

takata_1940
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Re: The (Free) French Air Force in 1940-1945 (Listing attempt)

Post by takata_1940 » 04 Nov 2009 22:45

hobo9 wrote:David,
I'm looking for the French designation of a "Wing". US/RAF terminology would be, three groups = Wing. In Armee de l'Air service could that be, three escadres = ???. BTW, the timeframe I'm interested in is Post WWII-Indochina-Algeria.
Thank you for your time and effort,
Regards,
P.N.
Hi,
That's not an easy question to answer as l'Armée de l'air used many designations which changed in time. Moreover, basically, any HQ above the 'Groupe' (Escadron) was mostly administrative rather than tactical. the 'Escadre' (or Régiment), 'Brigade', 'Division', 'Corps' and 'Army' HQs were all disbanded before WWII. Higher tactical HQs were also created, like the 'Groupement', which co-ordinated several 'Groupes' of the same kind, during the 1939-1940 period, and the echelon above was the 'Zone d'Opération Aérienne' (ZOA).

After WWII, the same system existed with higher operational HQs created following the circumstances. In Indochine existed a 'ZOT' (Zone d'Opération Tonkin, HQ Hanoï), GATAC 'Nord' (Groupement Aérien Tactique, HQ Hanoï), COMAR (Commandement de la Marine, HQ Haïphong) - GATAC 'Sud', HQ Saïgon/Tan-Son-Nhut. - GATAC 'Centre', HQ Hué - SURMAR (Surveillance Maritime at various places).. and so on.

S~
Olivier

goldrex
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Re: The (Free) French Air Force in 1940-1945 (Listing attempt)

Post by goldrex » 06 Nov 2009 18:18

Olivier,
Thank you for your reply and your explanation regarding my post.
Regards,
P.N.

grahamrush
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Re: The (Free) French Air Force in 1940-1945 (Listing attempt)

Post by grahamrush » 01 Feb 2010 19:54

Do you have any service records of free french air force pilots or personnel stationed at stormy down south wales uk during 1941 1944. I am looking to trace a perticular pilot by name. Thanks

uhebeisen
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Re: The (Free) French Air Force in 1940-1945 (Listing attempt)

Post by uhebeisen » 23 Jul 2018 20:08

hello,
I am new here searching for two particular P-39Q aircrafts. I knew their SN and that they belong to 1ère Escadrille GC II/9 Auvergne.
Can anyone tell me where to get more information about this Escadrille at the end of WWII. I assume they were located at La Vallone.
Especially I hope to find photos of the two aircrafts.
Short after the war ended in Europe they were on a mission (transfer flight?) along the Swiss boarder and missed a sharp turn of the river Rhein. They crashed at the Irchel.

Thanks.

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