USS Abner Read

[South]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 124221.htm


Good morning all,

The stern portion of the USS Abner Read was located off of the Aleutian island of Kiska.

Note the article's "Kiska, one of only two United States territories occupied by foreign forces in the last 200 years". Besides the Philippines, wasn't Virginia occupied by "foreign forces" since 1818 ?


~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[Takao]

Wake and Guam were also US Territories occupied by Japan...Funny how they are often forgotten.

[South]

Good morning Takao,

Good point.

We historians have much work to do.

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[Urmel]

Besides the Philippines, wasn't Virginia occupied by "foreign forces" since 1818 ?

When would that have been?

[South]

Good morning Urmel,

During the US Civil War, those who renounced their US citizenship and joined the new government known as the Confederate States of America, were considered foreigners.

After 1818, in the 1860s, for a short time, the US Government did not exercise territorial control over portions of Virginia.

The 44 counties that left Virginia to form a new state indirectly relates to my point but is off-topic for here.

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
(Lord Fairfax knew how to pick nice places to live, less the traffic congestion.)

[R Leonard]

. . . wasn't Virginia occupied by "foreign forces" since 1818 ?

Writing from the Old Dominion myself, I do not see the connection between 1818 and the Civil War.

Just what foreign forces occupied Virginia in 1818?

[Takao]

Good morning Urmel,

During the US Civil War, those who renounced their US citizenship and joined the new government known as the Confederate States of America, were considered foreigners.

After 1818, in the 1860s, for a short time, the US Government did not exercise territorial control over portions of Virginia.

The 44 counties that left Virginia to form a new state indirectly relates to my point but is off-topic for here.

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA
(Lord Fairfax knew how to pick nice places to live, less the traffic congestion.)

And you would be incorrect...

The Union contention was that the ACW was a domestic matter. Therefore the invaders would be domestic, not foreign.

The Confederate contention was that they had seceded from the US, therefore they were no longer part of the US. Thus, Virginia was not US territory.

[South]

Good afternoon Takao,

Please believe me on this - or not. I can't type up the references now.

There was more than one faction in the US political establishment and thus more than one view as to whether it was a domestic matter.

Ditto in re the Confederate government's view.

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[South]

Good afternoon R. Leonard,

Sorry for not writing clearer.

The linked article said no invasion or something for the last 200 years.


~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

[Takao]

Good afternoon Takao,

Please believe me on this - or not. I can't type up the references now.

There was more than one faction in the US political establishment and thus more than one view as to whether it was a domestic matter.

Ditto in re the Confederate government's view.

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA

I believe you however, said faction/factions were not the ones in control of the US Government, which is the only view that matters.

[henryk]

There has been US claimed territory held by Canada, and split between US and Canada. Some disputed land is still held by Canada.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... ted_States

Historical disputes[edit]
Alaska boundary dispute (Alaska / British Columbia and Yukon) lasted 1821 to 1903 Atlin District
Bering Sea Arbitration lasted 1881 to 1893.

Aroostook War (Maine / New Brunswick), a bloodless dispute that lasted from 1838 to 1839, leading to the Webster–Ashburton negotiations. Republic of Madawaska (Maine / New Brunswick), putative state in 1827, within territory that became part of New Brunswick in 1842. (Ed. Maine declared war over this.)

Oregon boundary dispute (Columbia District and New Caledonia / Oregon Country) Pig War (Colony of Vancouver Island / Washington Territory) took place in 1859

Republic of Indian Stream (New Hampshire / Lower Canada) unrecognized state from 1832 to 1835. Now part of New Hampshire.

Current disputes[edit]
Machias Seal Island—about 8.1 ha (20 acres)—and North Rock (Maine and New Brunswick), located in what is known as the "Grey Zone" (about 717 km2 (277 sq mi) in size),[2] is occupied by a Canadian lighthouse but claimed by the United States and visited by U.S. tour boats. The area is patrolled by the Canadian Coast Guard. The unresolved maritime boundary breaks into two elements: the sovereignty of the island and the location of the maritime boundary taking into account who is the rightful owner of the island.[3]

[South]

Good afternoon Takao,

Our cyber discussion is less about interpretation of matters - we both know what was going on (conceding I still do not know what Lee was doing in Pennsylvania; not part of the "South" nor related to "States Rights") - and more so about perspective: eg the broad interpretation view versus the stricter type of view.

The USG - even Lincoln's key figures - had conflicting factions. Lincoln adjusted his politics accordingly.

Just since I found the time to do some typing practice...Lincoln did not treat the UK as running a haven for fugitives from justice. Freeing the escaped slaves arriving in and around Norfolk, Virginia was less legal and more so political.

...

I found the time to ramble above without references - not even mentioning the "Radicals" Lincoln had to contend with - because it's too hot to change the oil in the half-tract and deuce and a half.

All else requires a separate thread. Down here there are people who only live and breathe the Civil War.

~ Bob
eastern Virginia, USA