The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

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Gorque
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Gorque » 29 Nov 2019 03:35

May 31, 1927-.png
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Gorque » 29 Nov 2019 04:02

6-1-1927:
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Buck Bradley
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Buck Bradley » 29 Nov 2019 05:31

Anthonycumia1776 wrote:
13 Nov 2019 06:28
Sid Guttridge wrote:
12 Nov 2019 12:27
Frederick Trump, the father of the current president, was a New Yorker of German origin.

New York was also home to the HQ of the German-American Bund in the 1930s.

Has any work been done one what Frederick Trump's attitude was towards (1) Nazi Germany and (2) the German-American Bund?

He certainly made money supporting the US naval war effort during WWII, but were his opinions in the 1930s?

Cheers,

Sid.
Why does this matter?
Precisely my reaction.

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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Sid Guttridge » 29 Nov 2019 14:43

Hi Buck Bradley,

You might ask the same of any and every thread on AHF, (as my long-suffering girlfriend sometimes does!)

Besides, why does it have to "matter"? Isn't simple historical curiosity enough?

As you are doubtless aware, Fred Trump's son is the current president of the most powerful nation on earth. He is also an isolationist, much as many, even most, Americans were in the late 1930s and early 1940s, when Fred was in his prime. There are certainly some echoes of that era in Fred's son using the slogan "America First". The America First Committee was a group formed in 1940 that opposed entry of the United States into World War II.

It would be of interest to some, if not to you or Anthonycumia1776, to what degree Fred's son was influenced by Fred in his world view. Was Fred, perhaps, an isolationist too? Did he support the America First Committee? Given that he was a New Yorker of recent German descent and the HQ of the German-American Bund was also in New York in the 1930s, he can hardly have been unaware of it and its Nazi connections. Did he have an opinion on it? If so, what?

The object of history is to learn from the past. It would be a poorer world if all historical curiosity were stifled just because it doesn't matter to some!

Cheers,

Sid.
Last edited by Sid Guttridge on 29 Nov 2019 15:30, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Sid Guttridge » 29 Nov 2019 14:53

Hi Ken S.,

You post, "The only reports that I've seen claiming all seven were "berobed" were published on June 2. It's possible that whoever wrote this simply assumed all of those arrested were with the klan."

It is possible, but the only two references I have seen to anyone being "berobed" embrace all those arrested. If Fred was one of those arrested, this would presumably include him.

Do you know of any references which refer to only some of those arrested being "berobed"?

In any event, Fred was released without charge, and we cannot hold the mere wearing of fancy dress against him. If we did, I would be in gaol every New Year's Day!

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Ken S. » 29 Nov 2019 22:11

Sid,

Below is another clip providing yet another version of the arrests. Again Fred Trump is not even mentioned, and as it turns out one of the "six berobed" turned out to be an "innocent bystander". The police claimed that the five men were "avowed Klansmen" - if Fred Trump was also an "avowed Klansmen," why was he discharged and not even mentioned in some newspaper accounts like this one?
Screenshot 2019-11-29 at 3.51.23 PM.png
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/1309878 ... ily_eagle/



Gorque,

Thank you for posting the full article.
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Gorque » 30 Nov 2019 02:27

Herald Tribure 5-31-27.png

New York Herald Tribune:
Versions of this story emerged last September when Boing Boing dug up an old New York Times article from May of 1927 that listed a Fred Trump among those arrested at a Klan rally in Jamaica, Queens, when "1,000 Klansmen and 100 policemen staged a free-for-all," in the streets.

...

Moreover, three additional newspaper clips unearthed by VICE contain separate accounts of Fred Trump's arrest at the May 1927 KKK rally in Queens, each of which seems to confirm the Times account of the events that day. While the clips don't confirm whether Fred Trump was actually a member of the Klan, they do suggest that the rally—and the subsequent arrests—did happen, and did involve Donald Trump's father, contrary to the candidate's denials. A fifth article mentions the seven arrestees without giving names, and claims that all of the individuals arrested—presumably including Trump—were wearing Klan attire.

The June 1, 1927, account of the May 31 Klan rally printed in a defunct Brooklyn paper called the Daily Star specifies that a Fred Trump "was dismissed on a charge of refusing to disperse." That article lists seven total arrests, and states that four of those arrested were expected to go to court, and two were paroled. Fred Trump was the only one not held on charges.
Daily Star 6-1-27.png
Another article about the rally, published by the Long Island Daily Press on June 2, 1927, mentions that there were seven arrestees without listing names, and claims that all of the individuals arrested were wearing Klan attire. The story, titled "Meeting on Parade Is Called Off," focuses on the police actions at the rally, noting criticism of the cops for brutally lashing out at the Klan supporters, who had assembled during a Memorial Day parade.

While the Long Island Daily Press doesn't mention Fred Trump specifically, the number of arrestees cited in the report is consistent with the other accounts of the rally. Significantly, the article refers to all of the arrestees as "berobed marchers." If Fred Trump, or another one of the attendees, wasn't dressed in a robe at the time, that may have been a reporting error worth correcting.
Long Island Daily Press 6-2-27.png
Source: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvke ... th-the-kkk
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Gorque » 30 Nov 2019 02:28

Ken S. wrote:
29 Nov 2019 22:11

Gorque,

Thank you for posting the full article.
No Problemo :thumbsup:

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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Gorque » 30 Nov 2019 02:42

Herald Tribure 5-31-27.png
In the center of this picture, one can see a possible verbal conflict occurring with a person in dark clothing talking to a Klansman, who has turn about 100 degrees to his left to respond. Considering the murders of the two Fascist marchers and the police response to the KKK that day, I would guess that the atmosphere that day was, for lack of a better description, highly charged[/i.]
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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by ljadw » 30 Nov 2019 11:05

Sid Guttridge wrote:
15 Nov 2019 15:29
Hi Gorque,

Is the KKK an avowedly Protestant organization?

I note that apparently, "On 18 August 1940, (Camp Nordland run by the German-American Bund) was the site of a joint rally with the Ku Klux Klan, organized by Alton Milford Young and Arthur Hornbui Bell....."

Cheers,

Sid.
The second Clan was anti-catholic ( especially in the South ) , not that it had much importance . The present Clan is no longer anti-catholic.
The First Clan was not antisemitic (the father of Bernard Baruch was a clan member ) . A lot of members of the present clan are anti semitic .
But : the point is that there is/was no such thing as THE KKK.It was not an uniform,centralised organisation .The KKK of NY was not the KKK of Alabama .
One should not overestimate the impact of religion in the US elections : the same catholic Al Smith who lost NY in the presidential elections of 1928,won the gubernational election in NY in 1918,while there was a GOP landslide, lost in 1920, but won again in 1922,1924,1926.

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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Gorque » 30 Nov 2019 14:39

Excerpts from the Calvin Coolidge Presidential Foundation:
The first thing the reader must understand about the Ku Klux Klan is this: There have been three Klans, each separate and distinct. The Klan that flourished in the 1920s was the second Ku Klux Klan. It existed as a legally chartered entity from 1915 to 1944, a total of 29 years. To assist the reader, sketches of the first and third Klans are presented below, followed by a detailed discussion of the second Klan.
...
The Second Klan of the 1920s: This is the body—known officially as the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan—that Presidents Warren G. Harding, 1921-23, and Calvin Coolidge, 1923-29, confronted. It differed significantly from its predecessor and successor. Most notably, it was a popular, nationally organized movement taking the form of a secret, fraternal organization and presenting itself to the public as a benevolent and patriotic society. Apart from its darker activities, which brought so much emotional anguish and even physical suffering to its victims, it is remembered primarily for its sinister costumes, its mysterious rituals and late night ceremonies, its bizarre titles for its officers, and especially for its symbol, the fiery cross.
...
The Klan preached a message of keeping “America for Americans”—that is, white, native born, Protestants—and took as its mission securing and maintaining that birthright for them. Underlying it all was the idea that only these Americans were fit to govern America. Klan members were driven by a strong bias against Catholics, Jews, certain foreigners, and blacks. These groups were seen as incapable of meeting the Klan’s One-Hundred Percent American standard of patriotism because of their inability to assimilate fully into American life due to various impediments.[xviii]

For the Klan, its prime target was what it regarded as the unholy Roman Catholic Church, with its machinations against Protestant America, and whose congregation’s first loyalty lay with the Pope in Rome, not with their homeland. Next in line came the Jews, a people apart, avaricious by nature, and incapable of patriotism in the Klan’s eyes. Then the unmixable immigrants from Central, Southern, and Eastern Europe, who to the Klan seemed poised to flood into America following the Great War.[xix] As for blacks, they were judged to be inferior beings and were expected to know and keep their place. While not the Klan’s primary target, as they had been with the first Klan, and were to be again with the third, blacks did not escape Klan harassment and violence. Given the black community’s past history with the Klan, they were also subject to the peculiar psychological torture that the very words “Ku Klux Klan” conjured in their minds.[xx]
...
Lacking central direction or control, Klaverns were involved in a hodge-podge of causes. With their controversial methods, including late night visitations, tar-and-feathering, and applying a razor strap to the back, Klansmen were active in fighting crime and vice, focusing on bootlegging, gambling, prostitution, and dope dealing. Sometimes, they turned their attention to reforming with their votes corrupt local government, putting down blacks demanding social change, or backing or breaking local strikes. They also sought to protect the family against home-breakers, who were firmly warned to shape up or else, and to ensure, according to their light, a good moral tone in the community. The latter included keeping a close watch on youthful joyriders out for a good time. Klansmen occasionally employed boycotts against those they targeted and attempted to exclude them from public office and public employment, especially teaching.
...
In November of 1922, Hiram Wesley Evans, a successful Texas dentist, deposed Simmons as Imperial Wizard. Evans, a capable manager and leader, changed the direction of the Klan. He exercised more control over local activities, he clamped down on violent acts, and he expanded the Klan’s ranks by creating a popular women’s auxiliary in 1923 and a branch for young folks in the following year.

Most notably, Evans attempted to make the Ku Klux Klan into a powerful political machine, working within the two major parties. To be at the center of power, Evans moved the Klan headquarters in late 1925 from Atlanta, Georgia, to 7th and “I” Streets in Washington, D.C., where it was to remain until 1929 when it was returned to its home base.[xxxiii]
Source: https://www.coolidgefoundation.org/blog ... s-america/

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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Ken S. » 02 Dec 2019 19:20

Looks like someone has decided to avoid this thread. One can only wonder why.

Here is an article about Fred Trump and the KKK that may be of interest:
http://www.newstandardpress.com/fred-trump-and-the-kkk/

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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Gorque » 02 Dec 2019 23:59

Hi Ken S:

Good analytical find :thumbsup:

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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Sid Guttridge » 03 Dec 2019 12:31

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the digging.

As it stands, the best summary seems to be, "However, the evidence I have reviewed shows that it’s also plausible, instead, that he was just a local guy who went to the Memorial Day parade and got involved in the riot that happened when 1,000 robed Klansmen tried to march through the streets of his neighborhood in Jamaica, Queens."

Cheers,

Sid

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Re: The attitudes of Frederick Trump in the 1930s.

Post by Sid Guttridge » 04 Dec 2019 10:38

Hi Guys,

Interesting and inconclusive thought the KKK diversion was, it isn't directly relevant to my original question.

We know that Frederick Trump's son is something of an isolationist. It would be interesting to know if the father was as well before WWII.

Frederick Trump was a New Yorker of German origin and his attitude towards Germany in the Nazi era is of some interest as well, because the city was also home to the HQ of the German-American Bund in the 1930s.

Has any work been done one what Frederick Trump's attitude was towards (1) Nazi Germany, (2) the German-American Bund or (3) isolationism?

He certainly made money supporting the US naval war effort during WWII, but what were his opinions in the 1930s?"

Cheers,

Sid.

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