Help to Id. US artillery

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Sturm78
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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by Sturm78 » 12 May 2020 21:07

ROLAND1369 wrote
You are correct. The first appears to be a 5 inch Mark 6 on a Mark 9 mounting.
Thanks, ROLAND1369

Any idea about the image posted on 05 May 2020 ?

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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by Sturm78 » 19 May 2020 22:49

Hi all,

Does somebody have any information about this gun ?
I think it is an 5in (127mm) naval gun on a field carriage. Perhaps a Mk.5 or Mk.6....
Only a prototype or manufactured in series ??

Thanks in advance

Image from NARA
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ROLAND1369
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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by ROLAND1369 » 21 May 2020 03:23

You are correct it is a 5 inch gun however it is a former Coast Artillery M1897 5 inch gun and recoil system formally mounted on an M1897 Balanced Pillar mount. This piece was part of an iniative by the US to make up its shortage of Heavy Artillery. The Army and Navy were asked to contribute surplus weapons for mounting on field carriages. The carriages were to be simple basic mounts suitable for construction by companies not experienced in gun making. The result was that the Army contributed 95 6-inch 50 caliobers and 28-5 inch 44.6 caliber weapons removed from coastal defense batteries. The navy contribution was 46-6 inch guns ranging from 30 to 50 calibers. The 5 inch guns were contracted to the Morgan engineering company who built and delievered 28 prior to the end of the war. Of these 26 were sent to Europe but took no part in the war. The carriage had no traverse and weighed in at 23,500 pounds. The majority of these carriages were scrapped shortly after the War. Source, AMERICAS MUNITIONS, 1917-18, Benedict Crowell, May 10 1919, pp 73-75.

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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by ROLAND1369 » 21 May 2020 03:40

Correction, the mount was a Balanced Pillar M1896 not M1897.

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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by Sturm78 » 21 May 2020 19:24

Thank you very much for your very useful help, ROLAND1369 :)

Here, another image from Ebay. It is an 406mm 16in Mk.2 Nval gun.
This gun is very similar to the gun posted here on 05 May 2020 but I can see some differences .... Is the same gun, really? :?

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ROLAND1369
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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by ROLAND1369 » 22 May 2020 02:07

They both appear to be 16 inch Mark II guns however the first picture is of one mounted on a test/proof carriage most likely at Dalgren naval ordnance center and as such is the naval turret model. The recoil system looks as if it can be fitted with different recoil systems for different guns Note what appears to be an unused recoil tube bracket on the right side of the recoil system. The second gun is mounted on the proof carriage at Aberdeen Proving Ground(it is still there) and thus is the Army Coast Defense modification. This accounts for the differences.

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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by ROLAND1369 » 22 May 2020 02:14

They both appear to be 16 inch Mark II guns however the first picture is of one mounted on a test/proof carriage most likely at Dalgren naval ordnance center and as such is the naval turret model. The recoil system looks as if it can be fitted with different recoil systems for different guns Note what appears to be an unused recoil tube bracket on the right side of the recoil system. The second gun is mounted on the proof carriage at Aberdeen Proving Ground(it is still there) and thus is the Army Coast Defense modification. This accounts for the differences.

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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by ROLAND1369 » 22 May 2020 14:57

In reference to your question on the first picture being the prototype 16 inch Mark II gun I would say it is not likely. The 16 inch Mark II were designed for a class of Battle Cruisers and Battleships designed during WW I and cancelled by the Washington Navy disarmament treaty during the 1920s. The uniforms in the picture ar from the 1940s and thus the gun is not likely to be the protype but one retained for experimental purposes.

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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by Sturm78 » 22 May 2020 15:39

Hi ROLAND1369

If I understand you correctly, you suggest that the test carriage of the image posted on 05 May 2020 had its own recoil system and it adapted to the different guns that were tested...??
I thought that each gun had its own specific recoil system and that both were inseparable...

On the other hand, I found this curious image of a Vickers 8in (203mm) howitzer with tracked carriage. I suppose that this is one of the many artillery experiments of US Army in the period 1918-1920...

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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by ROLAND1369 » 22 May 2020 16:06

I obviously did not make myself clear. The cradle which is the tube which the barrel slides in is restricted to merely carrying the tube. The cylinders and rods and springs attached to the cradle constitute the actual mechanism which controls the recoil and counter recoil of the tube. From the standpoint of the tube only the diameter of the cradle is critical and this can be changed with the addition of sleeves or slight machining. From the extra bracket this looks as if the cradle of the the picture was originally designed for the 16 inch 45 which has 4 cylinders mounted on top and later modified for the 16 inch 50 which has only three. A simplification of the system but I hope it clarifies my statement.

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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by Sturm78 » 24 May 2020 10:28

Thanks for your answer, ROLAND1369.

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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by Sturm78 » 24 May 2020 10:38

Hi all,

I found this image of an 37mm M3 AT gun on Ebay. According to photo caption, a captured gun in Westfront. The image is not dated but I think this gun was not used by US troops in Western front, only in the Pacific threatre, North Afrca and Italy.

Perhaps the caption is wrong and the image was taken in Italy or North Africa...

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Richard Anderson
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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by Richard Anderson » 24 May 2020 17:07

I would guess Italy. I know the 45thID, among others, retained some of the 37mm Gun M3 mixed in with the 57mm Gun M1 in the Regimental Antitank Companies through at least March 1944 and possibly beyond.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by Sturm78 » 26 May 2020 20:51

Thanks, Richard

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Re: Help to Id. US artillery

Post by LineDoggie » 27 May 2020 00:51

Sturm78 wrote:
24 May 2020 10:38
Hi all,

I found this image of an 37mm M3 AT gun on Ebay. According to photo caption, a captured gun in Westfront. The image is not dated but I think this gun was not used by US troops in Western front, only in the Pacific threatre, North Afrca and Italy.

Perhaps the caption is wrong and the image was taken in Italy or North Africa...

Sturm78
Richard Anderson wrote:
24 May 2020 17:07
I would guess Italy. I know the 45thID, among others, retained some of the 37mm Gun M3 mixed in with the 57mm Gun M1 in the Regimental Antitank Companies through at least March 1944 and possibly beyond.
US 2nd Armored Division did retain some 37mm @ Normandy many mounted on Halftracks
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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