Buffalo's in normandy...

[Vegemite/jordan]

Hey all, does anybody have any info on how many buffalos were in use/were they a rare sight? I would also like to know if they came in any painted camo-pictures would be well appreciated

[Michael Emrys]

I am not aware of any Buffaloes being used in Normandy at all and would be eager to hear if anybody has solid evidence to the contrary.

Michael

[Vegemite/jordan]

I heard that the British of all people used some in Normandy ages ago but i cant remember what for and exactly where-but if thats true i would definatly think the americans would use them instead of DUKW's aye?
If anybody has pics or info, please send!
Thankyou

[Michael Emrys]

Come to think of it, I'm not aware of any DUKWs being used in Normandy either, though they might have been. But I suspect there really wasn't any need of them. There were LSTs and LCTs enough that could land vehicles right on the beach, and the Mulberries got up and operating quickly for deep draft vessels. AIUI, DUKWs were used mainly for unloading deep draft cargo vessels that had no docking facilities.

Michael

[Vegemite/jordan]

Well i know for sure that british and Americans had DUKW's in Normandy, i dont have any referencs available but i think a handful at least of DUKs were used by british to cross one of the rivers near Arnhem..... dam sorry its midnight here, sorry i cant get my bearings. Itll probably be a week before i can get anything solid back to you :roll:
Anyway, thanks Michael

[RichTO90]

Come to think of it, I'm not aware of any DUKWs being used in Normandy either, though they might have been. But I suspect there really wasn't any need of them. There were LSTs and LCTs enough that could land vehicles right on the beach, and the Mulberries got up and operating quickly for deep draft vessels. AIUI, DUKWs were used mainly for unloading deep draft cargo vessels that had no docking facilities.

Michael

DUKWs most certainly were used at each of the beaches. They were utilized on the American beaches to transport the 57mm AT guns of the regimental AT companies and - without much success - the 105mm M2 howitzers of the attached artillery battalions of the RCT. They were also utilized to transport preloaded assault supplies to the beaches. Four were also utilized at Point du Hoc. Atotal of at least 103 were employed at OMAHA from the 457th, 459th and 461st Amphbious Truck Companies. I also know they were utilized at the British beaches and have a partial count of 46 employed in the assault at GOLD. Typically they were loaded and launched at sea from an LST, with usually 20+ loaded per LST.

Buffaloes were not utilized in the assault AFAIK but were evidently a part of the service groups set up to operate the beaches after the assault. I will see if I can find any firm numbers on them.

[Michael Kenny]

Buffalo's on the D-Day beaches were brought up on Missing Links a few years back and a somewhat indistinct photo was posted showing one in the background of an unloading scene. Make of it what you will!

[Vegemite/jordan]

Thanks Rich, I know they were definatly there and I have always had a suspicion that buffalos were used at Normandy, and why not? I know theyre better for protection instead of a rubber raft or wooden boat crossing rivers so I would of thought that they would be a good idea but that would be up to how generals at the time thought and supply as many went to the marines im sure.
Ill have a look on missing lynx Kenny but thanks for that If i find anything ill keep you all posted

Thanks guys
Jordan

[Vegemite/jordan]

Hey Kenny i cant find the thread on missinglynx but if you know where it is could you send me the link?

Thanks in advance
Jordan

[Virgil Hiltz]

There is a Buffalo outside of the Utah Beach museum. They were later used in the river crossings later in the war.

They were offered by the Navy for the D-Day invasion, but interservice rivalry rejected their use.

[Michael Kenny]

The search function is not working properly at ML but the photo was deleted a long time ago anyway. I never saved it!

[Vegemite/jordan]

Awww! dang owell, ML didnt work for me either hopefully someone can dig the picture up somewhere But thanks Virgil that information was definatly interesting You dont happen to have any book or site references to which crossings they were used in or if they were quite standard everywhere?

Thanks guys, that'll keep me on my search
Jordan

[Michael Emrys]

They were also used by the British in the attack on Walcheren Island IIRC. And they were used extensively in northern Italy, where there were many rivers to cross, especially in the eastern half of the penninsula.

Michael

[Vegemite/jordan]

Oh thanks Michael thats a thought to....well for example, the American 10th mountain division served in Italy and crossed quite afew rivers and made it to the south of the battle of the buldge after the germans surrendered in Italy-would they (if they had any buffalos) have retained them for use in Normandy/Germany? Oh and before i forget-if you have any photos of the colour scheme of the buffalos in Italy, they'd be much appreciated to
Anyway thanks Michael/all

Jordan

[RichTO90]

They were offered by the Navy for the D-Day invasion, but interservice rivalry rejected their use.

Sorry, but no, they were not, interservice rivalry had nothing to do with it and they were in fact used on a limited scalefor TORCH. It was more a question of availability and utility.

By 1 February 1944 (the earliest that production could reasonably be presumed to get into the hands of units for use by 1 June 1944) the total production of unarmored LVT was 3,118 and of armored LVT it was 592. Given that only the LVT (A) could be considered an "assault" amphibian the numbers, when shared with the forces in the Pacific and after considering losses (IIRC nearly 200 were lost or damaged at Tarawa alone), would have been insufficient in numbers.

Further, only the LVT (A) 4, which was newly in production, was ramped and had a capacity similar to the LCVP and LCA (30 troops). Only 50 were available for the June 1944 landing at Saipan, otherwise, all production to date would have been the earlier model, rampless types with a capacity of 18 troops. The result would have been that each assault wave would have required 1.5 times as many assault craft, in an operation where the numbers of assault craft were already enormous. Finally, aside from the possible advantage of the light armor in the run-in (the LVT (A) were about as well armored as an LCA, but better than an LCVP), there would have been little advantage to them in the Normandy assault. However, a good use may have been later in the flooded Praries of the Cotentin.

Finally, I cannot find any other specific reference to their use on D-Day. For the British, the records of 1st Assault Brigade, RE indicate that they were not issued until August and did not become operational until September, the numbers available are first recorded as of 1 October (130). But I'll keep digging.