Buffalo's in normandy...

Discussions on all aspects of the United States of America during the Inter-War era and Second World War. Hosted by Carl Schwamberger.
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Vegemite/jordan
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Post by Vegemite/jordan » 27 Jun 2006 23:46

Cheers Jon! ive never come across that site before! Seems like a good book, ill try get a copy :D
Cheers

Jordan

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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by Manuferey » 17 Oct 2008 22:12

Thanks to a recent discussion on a French forum about D-Day, I’ve found several pictures of LVTs on Omaha Beach and one or two postwar pictures at Utah Beach:

Here is a view of Omaha Beach after D-Day - Look at the bottom left corner, there, in front of a DUKW ... a LVT !

http://img120.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... _525lo.jpg


Also from the book “Spearheading D-Day” (or the French version “Jour J à l’Aube”) by Jonathan Gawne, here are two color pictures of LVT at Omaha Beach. These pictures are part of a 16 mm film taken by a Coast Guard photograph named Ruley.

http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=80010zb2.jpg

The LCI # 553 on the bottom left picture was disabled by enemy action at Omaha Beach on D-Day, so we’re sure of the location. A large amount of pebbles was also present on the beach.


For Utah Beach, there is this picture dated from 1945:
http://www.le-roosevelt.com/utah_1945_5.htm

There is also this postwar picture of two LVTs in the dunes of Utah Beach but the exact date is unknown. They may be the two units displayed afterwards at the museum.
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... orsql0.jpg

Emmanuel

Harry Yeide
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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by Harry Yeide » 18 Oct 2008 00:00

Those all belonged to the Navy, as I recall.

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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by Manuferey » 24 Oct 2009 13:14

A picture of a LVT at Omaha Beach from a veteran's album (photo ebay.com). The LVT is towing a disabled truck.

Image

Emmanuel

Tom from Cornwall
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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by Tom from Cornwall » 12 Sep 2013 20:39

Hi,

This old thread caught my eye - I have recently found a reference to British/Canadian plans to use LVTs in Normandy and subsequently for the crossing of the Seine. I'll try to dig out some details and post them here.

Regards

Tom

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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 13 Sep 2013 14:00

Thanks. Plans and why they were not carried out is always useful.

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Manuferey
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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by Manuferey » 25 Oct 2013 23:37

Manuferey wrote:Thanks to a recent discussion on a French forum about D-Day, I’ve found several pictures of LVTs on Omaha Beach and one or two postwar pictures at Utah Beach:

[1] Here is a view of Omaha Beach after D-Day - Look at the bottom left corner, there, in front of a DUKW ... a LVT !

http://img120.imagevenue.com/img.php?im ... _525lo.jpg


[2] Also from the book “Spearheading D-Day” (or the French version “Jour J à l’Aube”) by Jonathan Gawne, here are two color pictures of LVT at Omaha Beach. These pictures are part of a 16 mm film taken by a Coast Guard photograph named Ruley.

http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=80010zb2.jpg

The LCI # 553 on the bottom left picture was disabled by enemy action at Omaha Beach on D-Day, so we’re sure of the location. A large amount of pebbles was also present on the beach.


[3]For Utah Beach, there is this picture dated from 1945:
http://www.le-roosevelt.com/utah_1945_5.htm

[4] There is also this postwar picture of two LVTs in the dunes of Utah Beach but the exact date is unknown. They may be the two units displayed afterwards at the museum.
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... orsql0.jpg

Emmanuel
There are actually two types of LVTs on these pictures.

Here are US data sheets of the two LVTs and presented in the French magazine “Normandie 44” No.3 (2012) to help the identification:

Image


Therefore, we have:

1) Omaha Beach – LVT-1 on the bottom left

2) Omaha Beach – LVT-2

3) Utah Beach – LVT-2. It is actually one of the two LVTs on the picture below, thus, post-war.

4) Utah Beach – LVT-2

Emmanuel

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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by Manuferey » 25 Oct 2013 23:38

Manuferey wrote:A picture of a LVT at Omaha Beach from a veteran's album (photo ebay.com). The LVT is towing a disabled truck.

Image

Emmanuel
This is an LVT-2.

According to the author of the article “Alligators en Normandie” in the French magazine “Normandie 44” No. 3 (2012), the ESB veteran who owned this picture said that it had been taken at Utah Beach. The sandy landscape is consistent indeed with a Utah Beach location.

Emmanuel

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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by Manuferey » 25 Oct 2013 23:39

Here is a very interesting picture from Steve Zaloga’s book “Armored Attack 1944”. It shows rows of LVT-1 and –2 in England in March 1944.

Image

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Re: Buffalo's in Normandy...

Post by Manuferey » 25 Oct 2013 23:43

I was recently studying a 1944 footage of two US VIPs visiting Cherbourg and Utah Beach when I noticed this LVT-1 below at Utah Beach! :D :D :D :D



Image

I believe that the civilian is Henry Morganthau Jr, US Secretary of the Treasury, and the general is Lt.Gen. JC Hodges. Morganthau flew to Cherbourg on August 8, 1944 and visited for instance the V1 launching site of Brecourt near Cherbourg (not the Brecourt Manor of Band of Brothers’ fame) on August 10, 1944
(see here for reference: http://www.stolly.org.uk/ETO/henrymorge ... t1944.html )

Emmanuel

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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by RichTO90 » 26 Oct 2013 04:35

Manuferey wrote:Here is a very interesting picture from Steve Zaloga’s book “Armored Attack 1944”. It shows rows of LVT-1 and –2 in England in March 1944.

Image

Emmanuel
This is rather embarrassing, I seem to have misplaced this thread otherwise i could have cleared up a lot of misunderstanding a while ago. :oops:

The presence of the LVT in NEPTUNE was as part of the U.S. Army Quartermaster Corps Amphibious Truck Companies. Each of the 19 companies assigned to First and Third U.S. Army had 48 DUKW and two LVT-2, so at least 38 LVT-2 were deployed during the Normandy invasion. ETOUSA probably had access to more in additional units and as reserves, but I doubt there were even 100.

The photo of the LVT-1 and LVT-2 in Britain are probably all of Lend-Lease vehicles since AFAIK no LVT-1 assigned to the U.S. Army were delivered to England, most originally went to the Marine Corps or to training establishments. Indeed, the marine Corps experience at Betio was that the LVT-1 was completely unsuitable as a tactical vehicle, barely suitable as a logistical vehicle, and was best suited for teaching purposes. The LVT-2 was only marginally superior as a logistical vehicle. Both suffered from major problems anywhere near a combat environment - they were maintenance nightmares, wore out quickly, especially the tracks and what passed for suspension, and had zero armor protection and when they started leaking their bilge pumps only worked so long as the engine ran so when the fuel ran out or the engine stalled (a common occurrence since they were highly temperamental and also completely exposed to damage) they swiftly sank. The Marines attempt to use the LVT-2 with extemporaneous "boilerplate" armor at Betio was a near disaster and the LVT-1 used there were almost all lost - against the German defenses the result would have been the same or worse.

It was the ramped LVT-4 (A) that came available in small numbers in July 1944 that was the first true "assault amphibian".

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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by Manuferey » 26 Oct 2013 16:13

RichTO90 wrote:The presence of the LVT in NEPTUNE was as part of the U.S. Army Quartermaster Corps Amphibious Truck Companies. Each of the 19 companies assigned to First and Third U.S. Army had 48 DUKW and two LVT-2, so at least 38 LVT-2 were deployed during the Normandy invasion. ETOUSA probably had access to more in additional units and as reserves, but I doubt there were even 100.
Rich,

So the LVT-1 we see at Omaha and Utah were not part of any U.S. Army Quartermaster Corps Amphibious Truck Companies? Did they belong the US Navy?

Emmanuel

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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by RichTO90 » 26 Oct 2013 23:14

Manuferey wrote:
RichTO90 wrote:The presence of the LVT in NEPTUNE was as part of the U.S. Army Quartermaster Corps Amphibious Truck Companies. Each of the 19 companies assigned to First and Third U.S. Army had 48 DUKW and two LVT-2, so at least 38 LVT-2 were deployed during the Normandy invasion. ETOUSA probably had access to more in additional units and as reserves, but I doubt there were even 100.
Rich,

So the LVT-1 we see at Omaha and Utah were not part of any U.S. Army Quartermaster Corps Amphibious Truck Companies? Did they belong the US Navy?

Emmanuel
I thought all the photos of LVT were LVT-2? Part of the problem is that units rarely identified models, just like with M4 Medium Tanks. Now that I think though, it is possible some of those could be Navy though. The APA could stow either a LCM-3 or a LVT, some may have substituted the one for the other, but I don't recall ever seeing evidence of that. Plus, the Navy craft lists for NEPTUNE do not show any LVT, so most likely then they are all Army.

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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by Manuferey » 27 Oct 2013 14:27

Thanks Rich. The above pictures clearly show both types, LVT-1 and LVT-2 at Omaha and now at Utah as well.

Emmanuel

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Re: Buffalo's in normandy...

Post by RichTO90 » 27 Oct 2013 15:43

Manuferey wrote:Thanks Rich. The above pictures clearly show both types, LVT-1 and LVT-2 at Omaha and now at Utah as well.

Emmanuel
You're right - I should have read your posts more closely. :oops: The conclusion has to be that the Amphib Truck companies had both LVT-1 and LVT-2 - I still can't find any record of the Navy APA having substituted any for their LCM. It is also possible though that some of the Navy construction units in the follow-up used them.

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