Patton's 3rd Army in near clash with Red Army?

Discussions on all aspects of the United States of America during the Inter-War era and Second World War. Hosted by Carl Schwamberger.
coldam
In memoriam
Posts: 197
Joined: 21 Oct 2002 23:51
Location: all at sea

Patton's 3rd Army in near clash with Red Army?

Post by coldam » 17 Nov 2002 20:51

in connection with
'the day AH died'
I am looking for info about this episode, timeframe
anything

especially regarding the incident in the title.

thank you,

...peter

User avatar
Schwalbe
Member
Posts: 159
Joined: 28 Sep 2002 11:10
Location: Sweden

Post by Schwalbe » 19 Nov 2002 20:32

What I´ve heard, Patton said att the end of the war that he wished to fight the communists when the nazis were done.

ISU-152
Member
Posts: 711
Joined: 14 Nov 2002 14:02
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Post by ISU-152 » 27 Nov 2002 10:30

Patton has to praise the soviets there was no crazy general like him on the Soviet side otherwise his 3rd army would seize to exist.

Logan Hartke
Member
Posts: 1226
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 18:30
Location: Illinois, USA

Post by Logan Hartke » 27 Nov 2002 21:14

ISU-152 wrote:Patton has to praise the soviets there was no crazy general like him on the Soviet side otherwise his 3rd army would seize to exist.
You're foolish, ISU-152. Patton never lost a battle, nor did the Third Army. The Third Army could've defeated any Soviet Army of the time.
1944 - 1945

Facts and Figures

Reduced to cold, statistical figures, the feats of the Third Army were astonishing. The Army liberated or captured 81,522 square miles of territory. An estimated 12,000 cities, towns, and communities were liberated or captured, including 27 cities of more than 50,000 in population.

Third Army captured 765,483 prisoners of war. 515,205 of the enemy surrendered during the last week of the war to make a total of 1,280,688 POW's processed.

The enemy lost an estimated 1,280,688 captured, 144,500 killed, and 386,200 wounded, adding up to 1,811,388. By comparison, the Third Army suffered 16,596 killed, 96,241 wounded, and 26,809 missing in action for a total of 139,646 casualties. Third Army's losses were only 12.97 percent of the German losses. That is only about 13 American soldiers for every 100 German soldiers.

Third Army aircraft and artillery dropped or dispersed by shell 31,552,700 psychological warfare leaflets to enemy troops.

XIX Tactical Air Command completed 1,767 tactical reconnaissance missions and 77 photo reconnaissance missions which resulted in 3,205,670 aerial photographic prints being distributed.

XIX Tactical Air Command flew 7,326 missions and 74,447 sorties during the 281 days of fighting.

Third Army's air support dropped 17,486 tons of bombs, 3,205 napalm tanks, and launched 4,599 rockets.

The Air Command destroyed 1,640 enemy planes and only lost 582 of it's own from all causes.

Targets destroyed or damaged by the XIX Tactical Air Command included:

Tanks and armored cars 3,833
Motor vehicles 38,541
Locomotives 4,337
Railroad lines cut 2,585
Marshaling yards 974
Towns and villages 816
Factories 3,664
Supply dumps 220
Military installations 1,730
Gun installations 2,809
Highway and railroad bridges 285
Miscellaneous naval vessels 654
Miscellaneous targets 3,010

Third Army artillery fired 5,870,843 rounds of ammunition during the fighting.

Tank destroyers with the Third Army knocked out 648 enemy tanks and 211 self propelled guns. At the Maginot Line and the Siegfried Line, they eliminated 801 pillboxes. They fired a total of 101,178 rounds of ammunition on direct fire missions and 231,998 rounds on indirect fire missions.

Within the Army area, 2,186,792 tons of supplies were transported a total of 141,081,336 miles by trucks in the transportation pool. A total of 2,092 miles of railway track was reconstructed and placed into operation.

The Army repaired 99,114 general purpose vehicles, 21,761 combat vehicles, 11,613 artillery pieces, 125,083 small arms, and 32,740 instruments.

Third Army Engineers constructed 2,498 bridges with a total footage of 255,520 feet, almost 48 and one half miles of bridging. They built or maintained an average of 2,240 miles of road.

Third Army's nine chemical mortar companies expended 349,097 rounds of 4.2 inch mortars, including 189,095 rounds of high explosive and 160,002 rounds of white phosphorous. Chemical warfare supplies included 32,454 gallons of flame thrower fuel and 335,944 grenades.

Third Army Signal Corps personnel laid 3,747 miles of telephone wire. The Third Army message center handled a total of 7,220,261 code groups and switchboard operators handled an average of 13,968 telephone calls daily.

Military personnel in the Third Army were paid a total of $240,539,569 from the 1st of August, 1944 until the 30th of April, 1945.

The forward echelon of the Third Army (code named Lucky Forward by General Patton) traveled 1,225 miles while making 19 complete moves during combat.

The decorations awarded to soldiers of the Third Army were:

Medal of Honor 19
Distinguished Service Medal 44
Distinguished Service Cross 291
Legion of Merit 159
Silver Star 4,990
Soldier's Medal 247
Bronze Star 29,090

Normal promotions numbered 6,464; battlefield promotions totaled 1,817; and combat appointments totaled 848.

The correspondents of the Third Army and soldier correspondents wrote 30,326 stories totaling 7,010,963 words. They submitted 7,129 photographs about the Third Army's combat fighting.

A total of 11,230,000 soldiers attended motion picture shows at the Third Army. The USO shows played to 650,000 soldiers, and the soldier talent shows played to a total of 625,000 soldiers.

General Patton was right when he said, "It sure takes a lot to kill a German."

In this way, the Third Army played it's proud part in helping to crush the Nazi war machine. When men talk of the Second World War the name of the Third U.S. Army and of it's commander will awaken a special thrill of courage and adventure.

Perhaps more than any other group of soldiers in the European Theater, the soldiers of the Third Army deserved the praise of the Supreme Allied Commander Eisenhower when he said, "Working and fighting together in a single indestructible partnership you have achieved perfection in unification of air, ground, and naval power that will stand as a model in our time."
http://www.pattonhq.com/textfiles/thirdhst.html

Show me a comparable Soviet Army.

Logan Hartke

Michael Kenny
Member
Posts: 7436
Joined: 07 May 2002 19:40
Location: Teesside

Post by Michael Kenny » 27 Nov 2002 22:57

Propoganda was practiced by all Armies, not just by the Soviets. See Roberto's reply on page 2 of the 'General Patton had a bad opinion of the Russians' thread.

Mark V
Financial supporter
Posts: 3925
Joined: 22 May 2002 09:41
Location: Suomi Finland

Post by Mark V » 27 Nov 2002 23:29

Logan Hartke wrote: Show me a comparable Soviet Army.
Logan Hartke

Hi Logan


Well, that is not entirely fair and you know it Logan.

Not one Soviet Army could have fought successfully against US 3rd Army. Strenght of Soviet troops per unit was not comparable to western armies, and Soviet Army was (very roughly) comparable to US Army Corps.

But i understand your point otherwise. This is old debate and it has been chewed thoroughly here and in MilHist-Forum...

Still, I find these claims that beating western allied land-forces would have been such an easy task a little bit too arrogant, because in these claims there rarely has been taken account the real strenghts of western allied military power: Devastatingly powerfull tactical and strategic air-support, extremely effective and above all responsive US artillery, well trained troops with wealth of fighting experience, and the overall abundance of military equipment and very effective supply train that western allied enjoyed at that stage of war.


Just my 2 cents...

Logan Hartke
Member
Posts: 1226
Joined: 12 Mar 2002 18:30
Location: Illinois, USA

Post by Logan Hartke » 28 Nov 2002 01:14

Mark V wrote:Well, that is not entirely fair and you know it Logan.

Not one Soviet Army could have fought successfully against US 3rd Army. Strenght of Soviet troops per unit was not comparable to western armies, and Soviet Army was (very roughly) comparable to US Army Corps.
I actually didn't know that. In that case, I would think that the Third Army (or First Army for that matter) could take at least two Soviet Armies. I also agree with the rest of your statements.

Logan Hartke

Gwynn Compton
Member
Posts: 2840
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 22:46
Location: United Kingdom

Post by Gwynn Compton » 28 Nov 2002 12:16

And just think how strained the Red Armies supply lines must have been, and the havoc which the Allied airforce could bring to them.

Gwynn

ISU-152
Member
Posts: 711
Joined: 14 Nov 2002 14:02
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Post by ISU-152 » 28 Nov 2002 15:13

Logan Hartke wrote:
Mark V wrote:Well, that is not entirely fair and you know it Logan.

Not one Soviet Army could have fought successfully against US 3rd Army. Strenght of Soviet troops per unit was not comparable to western armies, and Soviet Army was (very roughly) comparable to US Army Corps.
I actually didn't know that. In that case, I would think that the Third Army (or First Army for that matter) could take at least two Soviet Armies. I also agree with the rest of your statements.

Logan Hartke
How about Patton's words that the 3rd Army with very little support can take on the entire Red Army? The guy is just plain crazy.
As for the order of battle how many men were in the standard war-time like 3rd US Army?
Typical wartime Soviet rifle division had 3500-5000 bayonettes. The army consisted of 6-7 such divisions plus supporting regiments of other branches such as signal troops, tanks, AT guns, etc. which would make an average strength of 60000 men in a Soviet army. These are average figures, some armies had more or less men.

Return to “USA 1919-1945”